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<cognominal_> pmichaud++ # for suceeding to spread the word about rakudo
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<Tene> mdiep: ping
<svnbotl> r26056 | particle++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [runtime] build yaml dumper pbc file during make all
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26056
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<Andy> morning all
<purl> morning, Andy
<mdiep> Tene: pong
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<jonathan> hi all
* jonathan has made it to Holland, after a great time in the Ukraine.
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<cognominal_> salut jonathan
<jonathan> cognominal_: hi :-)
<cognominal_> how was the weather in Ukraine?
<particl1> jonathan: we're totally on the same page. i just migrated t/spec/S12-methods/indirect_notation.t
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<jonathan> particle: I actually discovered this half-implemented on my laptop when I got to Ukraine...I'm still not sure I remember starting the patch.
<svnbotl> r26057 | jonathan++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [rakudo] Implement indirect method calls of forms $x.'foo'() and $x.$foo().
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26057
<jonathan> cognominal_: I got lucky and had, for Ukraine in Feb, great weather.
<jonathan> The worst day was Saturday, which was the conference, so I was indoors most of that.
<jonathan> particle: You got many OO tests done?
<particle> no, just starting for the day
<jonathan> Oh, cool.
<jonathan> This will be helpful, thanks.
<particle> well, your patch will be helpful, because now i don't have to implement what that tests :)
<jonathan> Got a whole load of ideas for stuff to hack on for Rakudo.
<particle> great. let me know what it is.
<jonathan> Did you see Zev's patch for letting us write bits of the runtime in Perl 6?
<particle> it's one of my 35 open windows atm
<mncharity> (write bits of the runtime in Perl 6)++
<particle> i'd like to apply it with a real function in there, rather than Dummy.pm
<particle> something like List.max() seems appropriate
<particle> or steal something from the kp6 runtime
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<jonathan> I don't think it will work too well writing classes that are part in PIR, part in Perl 6.
<jonathan> In fact, I *know* that won't work.
<particle> well, we can steal a whole class from kp6
<jonathan> Yes, that we can do.
<particle> http://svn.pugscode.org/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/src/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/
<shorten> particle's url is at http://xrl.us/bgqec
<particle> oops: http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/src/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/
<shorten> particle's url is at http://xrl.us/bgqee
<particle> how about Signature?
<purl> Signature is, like, invalid
<jonathan> We don't have various stuff it needs implemented yet. :-(
<particle> well, it's a target to shoot for. however, List.pm is a good start
<jonathan> ?? !! for one.
<particle> we don't have ?? !! ? are you sure?
<particle> that's easy to implement, it's in PAST.
<jonathan> OK.
<jonathan> Ah, bike ride time...
<jonathan> back in a bit...
<svnbotl> r26058 | particle++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [rakudo] remove deprecated compiler directives replaced by t/spec/fudge
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26058
<particle> tene, timtoady: ping - there's a user in #perl6 to kickban
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<TimToady> already did
<TimToady> well, I just kicked, didn't ban
<particle> probably good enuff
<TimToady> if not, I'll drag out my bin of bans
<Tene> didn't look malicous, just broken.
<particle> agreed
<TimToady> probably some harvester bot though
<TimToady> if so, they'll get a lot of grief from other channels too
<particle> the behavior wasn't malicious, the intent may have been
<TimToady> so still probably won't return, except as a lurker
<TimToady> presuming they fix the bug
<kismet> what user?
<TimToady> alc
<kismet> if you suspect it's a harvester, or publisher bot, and don't want it, just let me know, I'll get it glined.  Those are removed by request.
<kismet> and I need, to use, a few less, commas
<TimToady> well, the name was jobsearc
<TimToady> which is a bit odd
<kismet> muh-god I've become James Kirk.
<Tene> jonathan: I'm curious about why you used $S1000 instead of %r in your inline find_method call in your latest indirect method patch.
<Tene> ... oh, nevermind, I just need to read.
<particle> kismet: thanks, but that user/chan is on freenode
<particle> ...not sure if you're an op there.
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<kismet> nope.
<kismet> but I didn't see a reference to freenode either, so I assumed it was for here.  My fault for assuming.
<particle> no, harm, done.
<TimToady> well, #perl6 implies freenode, but not very hard :)
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* Coke gets go ahead from his boss for the time off in yapc::na. (good thing as the flight is booked.)
<Coke> and an indirect nod on yapc::eu.
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<davidfetter> re
<davidfetter> anybody in lisbon atm?
<davidfetter> anybody else*
<Coke> .pt or .ct.us ?
<davidfetter> .pt
* davidfetter managed to miss all the parrots @ FOSDEM :P
<Coke> nope. (I could drive to .ct.us in a pinch.)
<davidfetter> heh
<davidfetter> are you in .ct?
* davidfetter used to live in madison...
<Coke> born and raised in .ct; currently living in .ny (upstate)
<Coke> You can probably see most of the places I've lived from the top of the hotel at the mohegan sun. =-)
<davidfetter> heh
* davidfetter has lived varied enough places that you can't really see them all at once from space
<Coke> ... what an excellent idea. I'm going to put in a few of the most geographically disparate ones, and see how high I have to go in google earth to see them all!
<davidfetter> heh
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<Coke> does petergibbs show up on IRC?
<davidfetter> SELECT clue FROM davidfetter;
<davidfetter> ---
<davidfetter> 0 Rows
<Coke> seen kid51?
<purl> kid51 was last seen on #parrot 15 hours and 32 seconds ago, saying: must sleep 
<Coke> opbots, names
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<mncharity> Hi, could I get a reality check?  I'd like to have a script which takes a file with p6 grammar code (grammar Foo {...}), a grammar name (Foo), a start rule, and an input file, and runs the start rule with the input, yielding a Match tree.  I'd then like to dump the Match tree to stdout, ideally as yaml.  My impression of how to go about this is
<mncharity> use compilers/pge/ , and then... (hmm, ok, what i was thinking now seems invalid)... suggestions?
<mncharity> demo.pir mutant if it can (be made to)? accept a full grammar?
<mncharity> download nice CPAN module?
<mncharity> use rakudo?
<davidfetter> anybody seen flavio?
<Tene> mncharity: if we get file IO supported in rakudo, it should be a pretty short Perl 6 script.
<Tene> Or you could write it in PIR using PGE
<cognominal_> the thing missing is all the pair syntaxes
<cognominal_> but one can get away with  :key( 'value' )
<mncharity> Tene: do you have a feel for when IO might be supported?  say, {February, March, later}?
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<Tene> mncharity: I haven't looked to see if Parrot supports it yet or not.  I was planning on working on it tonight or tomorrow night.
<mncharity> ooo, nifty.  ok, I'll wait then.
<mncharity> re 'you could write it in PIR using PGE', given, say, a grammar and input fed as single lines, does it seem like this would be a two-ish line change to demo.pir?  one to do grammar(s?) rather than a rule, and one to invoke the grammar rule?  or is it "more interesting" than that?
<cognominal_> Tene, I don't see io specified in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S29.html
<cognominal_> on the other hand I see some tests in pugs
<cognominal_> ho, http://search.cpan.org/~lichtkind/Perl6-Doc-0.35_1/lib/Perl6/Doc/Design/S16.pod
<shorten> cognominal_'s url is at http://xrl.us/bgqng
<cognominal_> not on dev.perl.org :(
<particle> cog: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S16.html -- IO
<particle> mncharity: we don't have a way to dump a match tree in yaml yet
<particle> i'm working on something that'll dump AST as yaml. 
<cognominal_> don't we have json?
<mncharity> re 'dump a match tree in yaml', ok.  I could always post-process another format into yaml.
<particle> we've decided to use a subset of yaml that'll look much better than json
<particle> it's basically json+
<mncharity> re 'dump AST as yaml', yay.  That's a separate objective, but perhaps the code can be applied to Match's as well.
<particle> yes, the yaml dumper is generic
<mncharity> :)
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<cognominal_> json does not handle cicurlarity while yamld does if I recall correctly
<particle> yes, however i haven't addressed circularity yet
<particle> json doesn't address typing well
<particle> with yaml i can say: !PAST::Op { ... }
<Tene> docs/ops/io.pod looks good.
<particle> also json requires strings to be quoted, which is ugly imo and unnecessarially verbose
<Tene> Should be pretty straightforward to add some basic IO functions to rakudo
<particle> it'd be great to have spectests available before having the implementation
<Tene> Yes, it would.
<Tene> mncharity should do it.
<cognominal_> some are in pugs
<particle> looks like there's t/spec/S16-* already
<cognominal_> yes
<particle> however, some smartlinked tests here (http://perlcabal.org/syn/S16.html) are not in t/spec/ yet
<cognominal_> problem is that rakudo does not have pairs yet
<particle> search for "Show t/"
<Tene> If there are tests for 'open', 'read', and friends by tonight, I'll spend an hour or two working on implementing them tonight.
<cognominal_> these tests use them intensively
* particle wonders if kp6 has Pair.pm
<particle> http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/src/KindaPerl6/Runtime/Perl6/Pair.pm
<particle> yay!
<shorten> particle's url is at http://xrl.us/bgqn5
<cognominal_> we need to parse them too
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<Tene> cognominal_: they're not in spec/S16-* yet.
<particle> let's see if i can hack zev's patch to include Pair.pm
<particle> yes, we need to parse them too, but they're in STD
<Tene> What do we need pairs for specifically right now?
<cognominal_> I would be curious how you do it, I tried to no avail...
* barney needs Pairs for Eclectus
<cognominal_> in French, paire means balls too :)
<cognominal_> time for particle to prove he have some.
<Tene> I'm curious about what 'method true' in that Pair.pm is for.
<cognominal_> s/have/has/
<particle> .true returns Bool::True in Pair
<Tene> What... what is that good for?
<particle> defined testing
<Tene> Oh.
<cognominal_> btw, I have token noun {
<cognominal_>      'True'  {*}                                #= True
<cognominal_>     || 'False' {*}                                #= False
<cognominal_>     || <colonpair> {*}                            #= colonpair
<cognominal_> #   | <fatarrow>  {*}                            #= fatarrow
<cognominal_> but I don't know what to do for boolean actions
<cognominal_> I find strange that booleans litterals starts by a capital because it is reserved for namespaces
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<lichtkind> pmichaud: cheers how is doing rakudo?
<particle> you should whack TimToady over the head with that q.
<particle> that was for cog, not lichtkind
<lichtkind> allrigth :)
<particle> as for boolean actions for True|False...
<TimToady> true() is a function
<cognominal_> so what is True?
<TimToady> True is an enum, which is both a type and a value
<particle> ...Bool class sets up globals for True and False
<TimToady> enums are primarily considered singleton types
<particle> so, my True $x; # automatically contains True?
<TimToady> in the sense of representing only one value
<TimToady> yes
<particle> don't need to say my Bool::True $x
<particle> ok
<lichtkind> pmichaud: where are lieing the userdocs on parrot you told me about
<particle> er, i guess that'd be my Bool $x = True
<TimToady> and in signatures, values are even considered types in that sense
<TimToady> so you can have a parameter of "42" that has to match
<TimToady> which one uses all the time in recursive multis for the end condition
<cognominal_> each time I hit TimToady with an apparent inconstency, he hits me back with a deeper consistency :)
<TimToady> we've been thinking about this a while now :)
<TimToady> it's not entirely consistent yet, but it can never be completely consistent on all levels
<particle> lisp begs to differ
<TimToady> lisp only has one level
<ewilhelm> and no syntax
<cognominal_> but when you do  my $x = True,   you get a type or a value?
<TimToady> yes
<particle> now you're just having fun :)
<TimToady> It's mainly a value pretending to be a type
<TimToady> or maybe it's the other way around...
<ewilhelm> it's not just a typed value?
<cognominal_> depends on the way you use $x?
<particle> $x isn't constrained only to hold True, though.
<particle> with "my True $x;" it is
<TimToady> yes, but that's a container type, not a value type
<particle> it's effectively constant
<particle> right.
<TimToady> there's it's using True as a real subset type
<particle> in "my $x = True" you get the container typed because it's value is.
<TimToady> subset True is Bool where {.true} or some such
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<TimToady> subset February of Month where 2;
<TimToady> an enum is just a list of those
<cognominal_> it was just a matter of time that in scripting lanuguage everytin become a role. The only thing hopefully missing is the casting.
<TimToady> a type that is constrained to a single value may be used as that value
<TimToady> and protoobjects are constrained to be undefined
<particle> perl 6 breaks the mold, so there's no casting :P
<TimToady> the only question is whether its toxic mold...
<TimToady> *it's
<particle> we'll know if programmers come down with sick language syndrome
<particle> Use of uninitialized value in hash element at c:/usr/local/parrot/clean/languages/perl6/t/spec/fudge line 184, <> line 117.
<particle> hrmm.
<particle> how can i have too many windows and not enough windows open at the same time?
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<cognominal_> from the dict but that could be Dilbert  " take the marzipan and mold it into a cone shape."
* particle wants a test harness that works better for fudge results
* particle wished *nix supported negative exit status codes
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<particle> cognominal_: wrt 'True' action, it'd be something like 'self'
<particle> the Bool class creates globals
<particle> you can do inline pir to '%r = get_global ...'
<cognominal_> in fact it should not be a noun
<cognominal_> it must be in the hndling of typename
<particle> neither should 'self' or 'undef' be a noun
<cognominal_> hum, in the last svn checkout  I don;t get a prompt when starting rakudo :(
<svnbotl> r26059 | bernhard++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [Plumhead]
<svnbotl> : Remove abandoned variant 'yacc'
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26059
<cognominal_> I lost hope to get parrot working with svk
<cognominal_> hum inlining pir in actions, still new to me
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<svnbotl> r26060 | bernhard++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : #51056: [PATCH] coding style consistency and doc fix
<svnbotl> : Courtesy of Christoph Otto.
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26060
<jonathan> particle: self is a noun for now because it should be a term, but a term should be a noun, and if you try and do that you get the parser into some infinite recursion. Or something. There's a comment in the grammar about this.
<particle> sure, my point was that we cheat. working trumps good.
<particle> zev's patch isn't working as-is
<jonathan> Ah?
<jonathan> :-S
<particle> a few small problems
<particle> system.pir doesn't exist, np, just remove it from the patch
<jonathan> Ah, OK.
<particle> but 'echo "" > foo.pir' is actually putting "" in the file
<particle> when it should be blank
<particle> so, i need to find a portable way to create an empty file
<particle> looking at ExtUtils::Command now
<particle> hoping 'touch' will do it
<kj> particle: what if you create a pir file with a comment in it?
<kj> would that help?
<jonathan> particle: touch won't work on win32?
<particle> ExtUtils::Command's touch will work, with perl
<particle> win32 doesn't have a 'touch' command in the shell
<particle> kj: trying now
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<particle> kj: no, echo still displays the quotes
<particle> no quotes seems to work on linux and win32
<ewilhelm> particle: that's a file with "\n" in it
<particle> ?
<ewilhelm> echo > file; wc file
<ewilhelm> has one character -- not empty
<particle> echo "# foo bar" > file ## displays "\"# foo bar\"" on windows
<particle> the quotes end up inside the file
<kj> what if you also echo a backspace char :-)
<ewilhelm> did you want an empty file or a file with no quotes in it?
<ewilhelm> try `>file`
<particle> echo # foo bar > file ## displays "# foo bar" on windows and linux
<ewilhelm> yeah, but that's not empty
<particle> doesn't need to be empty
<particle> just needs to be a portable command
<particle> something that's parsable pir
<ewilhelm> ok, thought you started with `touch`
<particle> empty, or a comment, or noop
* ewilhelm $lurk = 1
<particle> yes, because an empty file is parsable pir. sorry that wasn't clean
<particle> s/n$/r/
<kj> particle: a few days ago you mentioned auto generating nci stubs, in relation to a c parser. I didn'tand don't quite understand what you meant
<kj> (as I now have c99 running, I might as well see what I can do on the nci stub stuff)
<particle> ok, see for example runtime/parrot/library/SDL.pir
<particle> dlfunc sdl_function, libstl, ...
<particle> if we could parse the header files and generate those lines, it'd make creating nci libraries much easier
<Tene> kj: pdds/draft/pdd16_native_call.pod
<Tene> Look at the SD... yeah, what particle said.
<particle> also if we could generate things like _set_Color_layout
<particle> the structs defined in the c headers
<kj> mm.ok what header files are you referring to?
<kj> so, I fail to see what needs to be parsed, and what needs to be generated
<particle> grab the libSDL package and look at SDL.h
<kj> i guess you mean the sdl code from sdl.org
<particle> rpm -qa | grep SDL
<Tene> Looks like kj is on windows
<kj> yes he is ;-)
<particle> ah, right. windows.
<Tene> That's always disorienting to me.
<particle> libsdl.org
<kj> yeah got it
<Tene> http://pleasedieinafire.net/~tene/SDL.h
<kj> so, for instance, consider:
<kj> extern DECLSPEC void SDLCALL SDL_QuitSubSystem(Uint32 flags);
<kj> from sdl.h
<kj> what kind of PIR is needed for this example?
<kj> ah i see (scrollback; missed that)
<Tene> Look at... SDL_video.h
<Tene> look for extern DECLSPEC SDL_Surface * SDLCALL SDL_SetVideoMode (int width, int height, int bpp, Uint32 flags);
<Tene> That matches up with:
<Tene> dlfunc sdl_function, libsdl, 'SDL_SetVideoMode', 'piiil'
<Tene> in SDL.pir
<Tene> the first character in the last item is the return type
<Tene> pointer
<Tene> then the types of the arguments
<Tene> int, int, int, long
<kj> tene: i see.thanks
<kj> is that really a pain to have to write manually?
<Tene> [tene@kupo ~]$ find /usr/include/ -name '*.h' | wc -l
<Tene> 4476
<kj> yeah, but obviously you're not going to invoke ALL functions on your system.
<kj> are you?
<kj> :-)
<Tene> Simultaneously.
<purl> simultaneously is pleased and scared
<svnbotl> r26061 | kjs++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [c99] fix grammar rule to parse structs
<svnbotl> : have # directives skipped for now through whitespace rule. not sure how to handle preprocessor; inline or as a separate parser.
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26061
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<Coke> (generating an empty file) we already do this in pge, I think.
<Coke> hurm. I see TOUCH in the makefile, but it's not where I thought it as.
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<Coke> Limbic_Region: hey, Joshua. Someone was looking for you in the past week.
<Coke> ... ooh, we have logs you can scan. =-)
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<Limbic_Region> any idea who it might have been?
<Limbic_Region> I got an email from robert concerning piper
<Limbic_Region> haven't had a chance to provide a patch
<Limbic_Region> other than that, no idea
<Limbic_Region> they didn't leave a message for me via purl
<Limbic_Region> Coke - where is the search functionality?  I can only seem to find the raw logs
* Limbic_Region can't be bothered to wait and decides to write some WWW::Mechanize instead
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<Limbic_Region> Coke - found it
<Limbic_Region> Coke - it was jmcadams on 2008-02-22
<Limbic_Region> "<jmcadams> Conrad Schneiker or Joshua Gatcomb hang out here?"
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<Limbic_Region> so are the logs searchable or not?
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<svnbotl> r26062 | jonathan++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : [rakudo] Make $.x used away from declaration with has do something closer to the right thing.
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26062
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<nopaste> "kid51" at 70.107.2.179 pasted "from: http://svn.perl.org/parrot/branches/tcif/lib/Parrot/Configure/Options/Test.pm" (24 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12395
<shorten> nopaste's url is at http://xrl.us/bgrbk
<kid51> Hmm, wrong channel for that paste.
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<svnbotl> r26063 | petdance++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : a little consting
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26063
<Andy> 3yay me!
<Tene> yay andy!
<Tene> For c99, we can steal the locally installed C preprocessor.  We don't care about supporting platforms with no C preprocessor, right? ;)
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<cotto> Hmmm.  I'm noticing that my PHPArray PMC has more loc than the biggest of the built-in PMCs, and I've still got about 20 methods to implement.
<cotto> Something's not quite right.
<Andy> Is anyone doin' work in Eclipse?
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<svnbotl> r26064 | petdance++ | trunk:
<svnbotl> : Modified some function parameter modifiers
<svnbotl> diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26064
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