% iblechbot has joined #parrot % Maddingue_ is now known as Maddingue % cout has joined #parrot % jisom has joined #parrot % jisom has left jisom!~jisom@c-98-212-164-35.hsd1.il.comcast.net % tetragon has left tetragon!~seneca@216.126.67.44 % Zaba_ has joined #parrot % Zaba has left Zaba!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru % Zaba has joined #parrot % Zaba_ has left Zaba_!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru % ruoso has joined #parrot % desertmax_ has joined #parrot % desertmax has left desertmax!~markus@91-113-30-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at % IllvilJa has left IllvilJa!~jilves@emea-netcache1.oracle.co.uk % IllvilJa has joined #parrot % contingencyplan has left contingencyplan!~contingen@cpe-76-186-27-146.tx.res.rr.com % contingencyplan has joined #parrot % desertmax_ is now known as desertmax % allison has joined #parrot % wknight8111 has joined #parrot % rdice has joined #parrot % Zaba_ has joined #parrot % rdice has left rdice!~richard_d@CPE001ff33cb98b-CM00159a01d44c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com % Zaba has left Zaba!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru % kid51 has joined #parrot % desertmax has left desertmax!~markus@80-123-30-236.adsl.highway.telekom.at % tetragon has joined #parrot % mire has left mire!~Frodo@238-172-222-85.adsl.verat.net % kid51 has left kid51!~jkeen@pool-71-247-51-8.nycmny.east.verizon.net Infinoid: (in portage) which portage, now? (I hadn't got the macports working for 0.6.1 due to the static build issue.) odd. I just got some emails regarding the static build issue. I opened that ticket a week ago. Static build issue? rt#52956 the static build is no longer static. that is, trying to build something that doesn't depend on libparrot.so still depends on it. % iblechbot has left iblechbot!~iblechbot@87.4-dial.augustakom.net % tetragon has left tetragon!~seneca@216.126.67.44 Coke: gentoo portage well, gentoo portage is inherantly broken tho thanks, purl. de nada Infinoid % gryphon has joined #parrot % rdice has joined #parrot % jhorwitz has joined #parrot % iblechbot has joined #parrot % Andy has joined #parrot % uniejo has left uniejo!~uniejo@langebro.adapt.dk % particle[ventus] has joined #parrot % wknight8111 has left wknight8111!~nobody@c-71-230-33-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net % wknight8111 has joined #parrot msg tetragon I tested your RT#53402 patch on mingw. No change in functionality (backtrace* isn't detected), but it fails a couple of codingstd tests (c_indent.t and cuddled_else.t). Message for tetragon stored. "Infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "r27227: Failing tests on mingw" (155 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12852 does anyone here have an example of a platform where PARROT_HAS_THREADS is not defined? (I'm in need of such a platform to test a patch on.) could you not test this by doing perl Configure -DPARROT_HAS_THREADS= ? (or whatever the way to spell that is?) maybe. hmmm I'm curious if the test case for RT #53458 fails under MSVC. Under mingw, it looks like the COND_TIMED_WAIT macro returns immediately... anyone around with msvc who can test this? i may be around in 20m or so, gotta eat first and do some $work cool. btw seems to be --optimize build problems with my linux setup ah, that makes sense. I don't build with that try it and see % davidfetter has joined #parrot segfaults :( with -j or without r27230 | coke++ | type_ids: : [build] : Give more diagnostics. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27230 nice gc segfault compiling json ah, yay! you get it too. yeah, you were right, its --optimize * Infinoid wonders if --optimize works on i686 % NotFound has joined #parrot Hello. hi % Theory has joined #parrot % sjansen has joined #parrot r27231 | allison++ | pdd25cx: : [pmc] Fixing a couple of bugs in generated PMC attribute accessors found while : working on Exception PMC. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27231 NotFound: hi, I just saw your NF_53112.patch (I had missed it previously), testing it now though I don't see how it can do any harm... if it breaks on a non-gettext system, the existing code would have broken too anyone seen the post to the list about my plumhead/perl6 problem? it's been a day now and i still don't see it in e-mail or in the archive. jhorwitz: sorry, it doesn't look like I've received anything jhorwitz: was it from a subscribed addr? yes you've probably (and rightly) been blacklisted. i guess you're evil. who's running the server, robert? yep k er, maybe ask can't hurt to email both yep i'll paste my problem here nopaste? nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating "jhorwitz" at 96.245.16.45 pasted "perl6/plumhead problem" (22 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12853 "jhorwitz" at 96.245.16.45 pasted "perl6/plumhead backtrace" (59 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12854 r27232 | infinoid++ | trunk: : [gettext] Followup to RT #53112: : * apply patch from NotFound++ to use macros PARROT_TEXTDOMAIN and : PARROT_BINDTEXTDOMAIN, to avoid polluting the namespace and hopefully : avoid future problems of this type. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27232 my mail server is having trouble connecting to mx.develooper.com which explains why my bugs aren't hitting the list rt? rt is just RT (http://bestpractical.com/rt) or (:rt3) or (: rt bugs) or Obra's trouble ticketing system or the first IBM RISC workstation (http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt.html) or the bombsquad or the Right Thing or very very capable and open-source or an application framework that bundles a ticketing system or obra's baby or SOOOO slow :-S or email mailto:perlbug-owner@perl.org for access yeah aha. user error on my part. i sent to perl6.org, and forwhatever reason i haven't seen the bounce yet. i'll resend to the right place this tim! time :) RT #53496 is a duplicate (I've merged with #53112)... Senaka sent that to parrotbug two weeks ago, on the 14th % kj has joined #parrot Infinoid: thanks. It was my fault to sent it to a ticket already closed. and my fault for not opening a new ticket for the remaining issues :) % kj has left kj!~IceChat7@193.1.100.110 r27233 | allison++ | pdd25cx: : [pdd25cx] Merge in my port of Exceptions PMC to use core struct instead of : array for attribute storage. : - Keep 'type' attribute. : - Use attribute access macros instead of direct struct manipulation so : Exception PMC is subclassable from HLL. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27233 r27234 | allison++ | pdd25cx: : [pdd25cx] Fix a few tests still using the old way of setting the exception message. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27234 allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy allison: ping. hi coke question regarding exceptions for you. sure er, questions. figured I'd hit you pre-meeting if you're here. =-) is there still room for HLL-specific information? I had been using [9] and [10] for two bits of info in tcl... sounds good, go ahead yeah, there's room it's not currently spec'd so, what do you need? I'm using one for tcl's flow control type (ok, return, continue, break, error) were those two integer data elements? % smashz has joined #parrot the type is an int. (languages/tcl/src/returncodes.pir) hello everyone * Coke looks at that file and realizes he's down to a single slot. Coke: sorry, my jabber connection went wild I think I moved my tcl error message into [0]. another thing I need but never implemented is a place to hold a stack trace. er, you were using the HLL file and line attributes for exception type? % barney has joined #parrot oh, no, the 'unused' spot hurm? no, my exception types are just those first ints. I original was using two custom slots, apparently I am only using one now. =-) (originally) the general idea is that 'payload' is a PMC that can hold any arbitrary data that the particular exception needs % smashz is now known as smash Ok. if we're using exceptions for flow control in many languages, we might want to codify that a bit mroe. so, you could stick flow-control ty;e in there (so a [return] in tcl means something to the calling perl6 method.) or, we can make flow control type just an ordinary exception type we might want to make flow control type... right. I'd recommend that. is it an integer or string value? then I can map the 5 tcl kinds (ok, 4) to the various TCL_RETURN, etc. for me it's just an enum. so, an integer well, a faux-enum. fwiw, rakudo will be using a capture as the payload on its return types yes. s/return types/return exceptions do we want to add a stacktrace ala java? ok, I'll add a wiki task to expand the exception types enum (which I can then abuse in tcl.) I can always manually muck with the stacktrace in the payload, of course. * Coke tries to find an example of what a tcl stacktrace looks like. http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/Tcl36.html //Produces the following output allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy (Tcl also has errorInfo and errorCode, which I think I can manage separately. I think.) stacktrace as an attribute of the Exception PMC? or stacktrace as functionality in src/exceptions.c? % desertmax has joined #parrot I'm not sure where we would store it except in the exception PMC. allison: you lost me with that mail exchanges about debian packages, i have the packages for 0.6.1 lying around my laptop without destination :-P I could make due with an array of file/code/line tuples. (maybe a few more items, I'm not sure.) we could provide standard "convert that to a string" convenience functions for general parrot use, and HLLs could roll their own. oh, i see, you're talking about storing the stack trace so it can be accessed by the handler, right? yes. then my top level error handler can print a nicely formatted HLL message. (and I can muck with the data as it's passing up through my handlers. smash: can you put them up in a place where I can download and test them? allison: but of course, gimme a tick smash: if they look good I'll load them onto alioth smash: no rush, it's evening here, so my day ends soon after parrotsketch and if they don't look good.. you'll tell me what i need to fix smash: exactly coke: yeah, I think the exception object is a sensible place to store that. It'll have to be a String PMC to start, since we don't capture the stack trace with any more detail yet, but it could be a more easily introspectable PMC later allison: besides your testing, any reason i can'y upload them myself to alioth ? smash: admin privs, and I need to set up the categories correctly, since we haven't uploaded any packages yet (quicker to do it myself than to explain, and once I do the first upload you'll easily see what to do next time) allison: roger that which files do you want? *.deb ? i guess that's enough for installing parrotsketch is meant to be now? allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy allison: http://nrc.homelinux.org/parrot/debian/ jonathan: I think its an hour from now jonathan: yes, an hour from now Oh? Geck, I'm here now, but I can't be in an hour. i'm off then, bbl % smash has left smash!~smash@gil.di.uminho.pt Let me put an early report in the channel. 6:30pm UTC sounds good Oh, we don't change the time with daylight savings? That'd explain it. jonathan: nope, too confusing with so many different daylight savings times apparently your DST switch happens later than my DST does :) no DST at all here in ZA rad (wrong channel) no DST in AZ, either. it made life so much simpler when I was living in Phoenix % sjansen has left sjansen!~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com No DST sounds like a good idea. #ps is always 18:30 utc Sure, it works for me, I'd just not factored in DST and such things. Anyways, gotta run...around tomorrow or certainly here all day Thursday jonathan: btw, ROADMAP has rakudo milestones, if you hadn't noticed it yet pmichaud: I saw the commits, glanced over the first one, will read it properly soon, thanks for doing that. okay. We're thinking of allowing people to claim particular milestones not exclusively, of course, but for someone to say "I really want to do this part" I guess as pumpking I get to claim all of the parts nobody else wants to do :-) * Infinoid had hopes of getting a bunch of PDD13 stuff done last weekend, but got distracted by video games instead. *sigh* yeah, I got "Mario Kart Wii" yesterday. Evil. last weekend video games, this weekend sailing... you've got a rough life, mark. % sjansen has joined #parrot ;) pmichaud: I hate its battle mode poor poor me I haven't tried battle mode yet. They ruined it particle: hey! how'd you know I was going to be racing? :P tis okay, I like the other modes well enough. And it's nice to have a game that Matthew can play with his sister and me and still have a good chance of winning :-) % ruoso has left ruoso!~ruoso@195.23.92.2 /me stumbled over sysinfo op. Courtesy of Brad Gilbert # 20:05 Friday parrot sorry wrong paste meant to mention http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Parrot_Virtual_Machine % grim_fandango has joined #parrot % alin has joined #parrot (mario kart wii) Hurm. I just picked up Assassin's Creed PS3. =-) barney: is that new content or copied from elsewehre, OOC? % AndyA has left AndyA!~andy@82.152.157.85 % teknomunk has left teknomunk!~teknomunk@ubuntubob.residential.okstate.edu % teknomunk has joined #parrot I think that whiteknight wrote some new content % alin has left #parrot % AndyA has joined #parrot I try to add a little bit of content every day % chromatic has joined #parrot #ps in 2 % Zaba_ is now known as Zaba % Ivatar has joined #parrot % ambs has joined #parrot will@coleda.com | YAPC::NA::2008: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?yapc_na_2008 % mire has joined #parrot seen merlyn merlyn was last seen on #moose 39 days and 21 hours ago, saying: ... http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-year-of-smalltalk.html [Mar 20 15:09:20 2008] ambs, he's over on irc://irc.freenode.net/postgresql (among other places) davidfetter, thanks, but nothing too important :) he's there right now :) * davidfetter chatting w/him atm % IllvilJa has left IllvilJa!~jilves@emea-netcache1.oracle.co.uk % rgrjr has joined #parrot % ambs has left ambs!~ambs@255.92.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt % ruoso has joined #parrot % IllvilJa has joined #parrot r27235 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [Exceptions] Renamed "_message" to "message" globally. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27235 * Coke tries to imagine a woofie-like currency based on tuits. % ambs has joined #parrot er, whuffie. r27236 | bernhard++ | trunk: : [Eclectus] : Funny quoting. Pass t/vectors.t for 'gen_past_in_nqp' implementation. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27236 Coke: Sorry, still don't get it. whuffie? rumour has it whuffie is (: affero) or cory doctorow's word for 'global karma system' whuffie is also at Act: 1,3,10] [#parrot] okay, Coke. f*ck. thx. zero or more 'f' characters followed by 'ck' r27237 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [Exceptions] Renamed "_severity" to "severity" globally. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27237 whuffie is also at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie okay, Coke. whuffie? whuffie is (: affero) or cory doctorow's word for 'global karma system' or at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie I can't build with g++, here is the error: src/builtin.c: In function 'int find_builtin(const char*)': src/builtin.c:145: error: declaration of 'int find_builtin(const char*)' throws different exceptions src/builtin.c:100: error: from previous declaration 'int find_builtin(const char*) throw ()' chromatic: you gonna go through languages in that branch too? Did. even tcl? With gcc 4.2.3 Especially Tcl. Excellent. Even dotnet, which still had, inexplicably, '$P0 = new .Exception' hasn't been run in a while, apparently. i bet nobody has mono to test it BASIC has similar things. I've had mono. I don't recommend it. You didn't know there were patent problems with being really bored. % rgrjr has left #parrot I had mono in December and January. you got .NET working on linux?!? 'mono' in spain is slang for abstinence syndrome. I was really into c# back around '03 r27238 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [Exceptions] Renamed "_type" to "type" globally. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27238 lol chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy r27239 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [src] Cleaned up code per coding standards. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27239 chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy r27240 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [PMC] Added stacktrace attribute to Exception PMC. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27240 chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy % desertmax has left desertmax!~markus@80-123-10-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at % Zaba has left Zaba!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru % Zaba has joined #parrot % sjansen has left sjansen!~sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com ah! the mingw32-doesn't-sleep issue (RT #53458) was caused by r24416... reverting that diff locally causes the sleep op to behave as expected. interesting. indeed. * Infinoid thinks the win32 version of COND_TIMED_WAIT needs a rework % barney has left barney!~bernhard@dslb-084-058-115-172.pools.arcor-ip.net r27241 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [Exceptions] Renamed throw_exception() to run_handler() globally. : Tidied up some Tcl ops while I was in there. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27241 chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy Mac, still failing t/examples/library.t test three. % jhorwitz has left jhorwitz!~chatzilla@96.245.16.45 % slightlyoff has joined #parrot % particle[ventus] has left particle[ventus]!~particle@c-24-19-3-148.hsd1.mn.comcast.net % zarchne has left zarchne!~michael@209.40.67.38 r27242 | pmichaud++ | trunk: : [rakudo]: : * Add hyperops, reduction operators to ROADMAP. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27242 % allison has left allison!~chatzilla@dsl-241-25-20.telkomadsl.co.za % askie_ has left askie_!~askie@81.171.100.208 % rdice has left rdice!~richard_d@CPE0014bfafbbd5-CM0011e6ecf48a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com % askie has joined #parrot * ambs wonders if Ask has a child * ambs grins well,good night % ambs has left ambs!~ambs@255.92.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt % NotFound has left #parrot % iblechbot has left iblechbot!~iblechbot@42.18-dial.augustakom.net % chromatic has left chromatic!~chromatic@69.71.188.81 % particle[ventus] has joined #parrot in pir, N0 is supposed to be a number (meaning, FLOATVAL), right? yes. though it's typically spelled $N0 hmm, doesn't seem to make any difference whether I add a $ or not "Infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "broken timestamp handling on mingw" (17 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12858 the time(out INT) and time(out NUM) ops are virtually identical... yet N0 has an extra digit interesting, yah, that works fine on my platform. I suspect a slipped digit in the conversion on your platform. I got to this after wondering if Parrot_floatval_time() is broken on mingw... unfortunately time_t is 32 bit on mingw, and all the time calculations done by the sleep routine end up with 0xffffffff values, which is why it never sleeps so, where can I find this conversion you speak of? :) % chromatic has joined #parrot chromatic: any advice on how to un-break float conversion on mingw32? http://nopaste.snit.ch/12858 Let me look. thanks. % tetragon has joined #parrot Hm. % Ivatar has left Ivatar!~graham@tu055.demon.co.uk Looks like a precision problem somewhere in the platform information. is this parrot's fault, or gcc's? Depends on how big INTVAL is, I suspect. INTVAL_SIZE is 4 (long) config/gen/platform/win32/time.c:40:# if INTVAL_SIZE <= 4 _MSC_VER isn't defined, this is mingw32. So much for random guesses based on ack. What's in include/parrot/config.h on lines 85 and 86? Mine's 4 and 8, respectively. same here but you brought up a very good point, that I missed "N0 = time" calls Parrot_floatval_time, which is quite a lot different from Parrot_intval_time They should probably be similarish. the code in Parrot_cx_schedule_sleep and in win32's COND_TIMED_WAIT() both expect their return values to be compatible and they very obviously aren't. so that's what I need to fix thanks! home & You're welcome. r27243 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: : [Exceptions] Removed Python-specific exceptions from exception_type_enum. : Ported all instances of these exceptions to Parrot-specific types globally. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27243 chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy That was a big patch. chromatic: you're parrot-busy today. +1 1 I'm on vacation. chromatic++ chromatic+=3.14 Yeah, you're just glad I made the Tcl ops slightly more readable. I'd be happier if you made tcl less than slightly more fast. how long is your vacation? =-) chromatic: I think there's some vtable level exception wonkery in there you might want to update, btw. (where I do the equivalent of $P1[0] = $S0 for the message. (but in C) VTABLE_set_string_native(interp, exception, message) VTABLE_set_pmc_keyed_int(interp, exception, (INTVAL)0, $1); % Limbic_Region has joined #parrot Exception doesn't extend ResizablePMCArray anymore, so no keyed int, I believe. ... this is what I'm saying. set_attr does work though. you updated the PIR variants in tcl, but not the C variants. If you just want to set the message, use set_string_native. Right. I'm just telling you because you're on vacation and I'm still at work, nearly 3 hours late. =-) I'll get to it in a day or two. I'll update the wiki so I don't have to keep it in my braiiiiins. % chromatic is now known as chromatic_away chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy danke. * Coke is reminded to buy zombie fluxx. chromatic++ will@coleda.com | Concurrency Tasks: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy i am dalek's shortened url I get cancer. I kill dalek. % chromatic_away has left chromatic_away!~chromatic@75-94-7-69.boi.clearwire-dns.net I am dalek's angst ridden send. yay, enough cold fusion done for one day. % zarchne has joined #parrot % chromatic has joined #parrot % chromatic has left chromatic!~chromatic@75-94-7-69.boi.clearwire-dns.net % davidfetter has left davidfetter!~chatzilla@start.fetter.org % particle[ventus] has left particle[ventus]!~particle@71-212-101-214.tukw.qwest.net % ask_ has left ask_!~ask@pat-tdc.opera.com % ask has joined #parrot % ruoso has left ruoso!~ruoso@81.84.159.98 Is the build known to be broke on Win32/Cygwin? I did a realclean;svn up;perl Configure.PL;make earlier tonight and it failed to build - confirming it is still broke now don't want to waste a lot of time if this is known breakage % japhb has left japhb!~geoff@76-191-190-8.dsl.static.sonic.net I don't know. I know mingw builds work i'm trying msvc right now wknight8111: you have msvc! can I use you as a guinea pig? yes, please i find i'm often playing the part of small furry rodent great. first question: if you save http://nopaste.snit.ch/12862 to a file named sleep.pir and run it, does it say "ok" immediately or does it wait a second? i'm building now, i'll let you know as soon as that works (if it works) Infinoid: Checking the behaviour of your three alarm test changes? it usually takes a few minutes on my ghetto computer tetragon: actually, checking into a bug on mingw in which the "sleep" op is actually a noop I want to know if its mingw-specific tetragon: t/dynoplibs/myops.t test 6 is next on the list tho... Infinoid: It's myops.t 3 that keeps crashing on my box % ./parrot t/dynoplibs/myops_3.pir neither here zsh: segmentation fault ./parrot t/dynoplibs/myops_3.pir like that? :) infinoid, in sleep.pir should it be ".sub main :main" or just ".sub main"? I don't think it matters, ".sub main" works fine for me but I'm also not very good at PIR. Infinoid: And as for the backtrace codingstd.t failures, I still haven't gotten around to assembling a vim config for parrot's style and I sometimes miss the indents. i'll play with it tetragon: are the hints we put into source code footers of any use, for that? wknight8111: thanks Infinoid: Many vim installs ignore those Infinoid: In fact, I can't think of any of those I worked with that use them well I never. And after all the trouble we went through to make up a codingstd and barf when the tag isn't there, too. :) I bet its disabled by default for security reasons Yep