% teknomunk has left teknomunk!~teknomunk@r74-195-239-111.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net % bacek has left bacek!~bacek@123-243-38-218.tpgi.com.au hmm seems like some svn metadata in trunk is messed test fails http://rafb.net/p/JgyRQf55.html % Senaka has joined #parrot % Senaka has left #parrot % barney has joined #parrot allison@perl.org | YAPC::NA::2008: link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?yapc_na_2008 % barney has left barney!~bernhard@dslb-084-058-190-118.pools.arcor-ip.net % rdice has joined #parrot % lichtkind has joined #parrot pmichaud: haha i offended you 30 sec ago muahaha it's hard to offend most people at 4:00 well, I guess maybe it's 6:00 there... % Zaba_ has left Zaba_!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru % Zaba has joined #parrot lunch time here dinner time in 日本 % lichtkind has left lichtkind!~chatzilla@d90-134-0-236.cust.tele2.de Lunch time here too, apart from I only woke up an hour ago... Apparently, the culture here suggests early mornings and un-late nights, though I've only lived here for a few days, so I guess I've got some de-Spanishing to go. TimToady: When you get a spare moment, feedback on the "Private methods in classes and roles" thread would be helpful...I'm planning to look at the role composition stuff soonish. (p6l thread) % lichtkind has joined #parrot TimToady: yes but by offended i mean calling him an camel, (i suggest him for white camel award) Timtoady is there a way to add a variable to a typeclass? I wanted to be too smart and I would get something like : token attvalue { $delim= <['"]> <-[<&"$delim]>* $delim } modulo the syntax of the expansion of the variable in the typeclass heu, that would be : token attvalue { $delim= <['"]> <-[&"$delim]>* $delim } % Ivatar has joined #parrot there is a bug with the win32 build of parrot readline5.dll not found % iblechbot has joined #parrot % allison has joined #parrot % iblechbot has left iblechbot!~iblechbot@160.16-dial.augustakom.net % Limbic_Region has joined #parrot % Debolaz has left Debolaz!~root@nat.andersberle.com % Debolaz has joined #parrot % tetragon has joined #parrot % paco has left paco!~chatzilla@139.Red-80-36-122.staticIP.rima-tde.net % paco has joined #parrot % teknomunk has joined #parrot cognominal: not currently, but you can always write [ .]* and maybe <-$delim> could be made to mean the same thing but usually you just do .*? $delim TimToady: Giving a Perl 6 talk soonish that will have some theory-ish folks there, and have just been playing with doing dependent types in Perl 6. That is, types that depend on their values. Perl 6 is wonderful for this because of "subset" types or especially anonymous ones. I've just written this: sub add_all(List where { our $len = $^xs.elems; 1 } $a, List where { our $len == $^xs.elems } $b) { } Which type-checks to make sure that you passed two lists of the same length. However, it's not really right; using "our" means this won't work out with recursive calls or in multi-threaded environments. % AndyA has left AndyA!~andy@c-68-33-170-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net Using "my" won't work as that scopes the variable inside the block. I think "temp" will have the same issue. Is there something I should be using here? TimToady, thx. anyway it easier to do a | (or) to get separately the simple and double quoted stuff. % c9s has left c9s!~c9s@163.26.225.208 jonathan: why not just List $b where { $a.elems == $b.elems } Oh! % Limbic_Region has left Limbic_Region!~Limbic_Re@c-68-49-236-220.hsd1.md.comcast.net Yes. :-) Thanks. Brain only half-functioning today. mine's kinda in sideways at the moment... long 2nd day at the hackthon plus residual jetlag I'm sure the sake has nothing to do with it. :) :-) ....someone please talk me out of adding protoregexes to PGE :-| (just figured out a relatively easy way to do it.) pmichaud: Is it hard? Ah, no. :-) I don't think it'll be that hard, but it requires refactoring a bunch of PGE stuff (and perhaps languages that rely on it) what is the standard way of calling a same named method in a parent class. Does this work for grammars? Well, it gives you a COOL thing to blog about. cognominal: at present I don't know that there is a way to call same-named method in a parent class cognominal: I *think* nextwith Maybe... cognominal: if you know the identity of the parent class, it can be done as a sub call $P0 = get_global ['ParentClass'], 'methodname' $P0(self, args) jonathan: yes, it would give me a COOL thing to blog about. Do it! Do it! well, I doubt I'd be able to do it in time for the release (or that that would be a good idea), so it'll be branch work for a bit Yes, I suggest maybe do it in a seperate branch to the protoobject stuff? on the plus side, it could really speed up parsing You're making it real hard for me to talk you out of this. it wouldn't be full ltm yet, but it would allow us to get rid of rule statement { | | | ... } % ambs has joined #parrot Nice as well as as well as is, like, entirely self-organizing purl forget as well as jonathan: I forgot as well as that's more or less what I just hacked into STD using Moose last night * ambs waves I'm only half-joking about putting protoregexes into PGE -- it's just that I have a bunch of other "high-priority" things to implement as well Too many high-pirority things. :-) yes, it'd be a separate branch from p6object -- I'd want to get p6object finished first but I'm also having a major re-think about how PGE handles grammars although I think that fixing the grammar stuff would be somewhat less intrusive than protoregexes actually, if I get the grammar stuff in place, then protoregexes aren't so much of a pain on external systems hrm. It may be better to do intrusive stuff earlier, and further back from a release. unfortunately I *should* be grading papers at the moment. Ah, ugh. oh well, after today (tomorrow?) I'll be done with that job and can focus full-time on rakudo/parrot. I *should* be writing slides, instead I'm playing with dependant types and being happy that Rakudo kinda does 'em. TimToady: I know people probably tell you this all the time, but Perl 6 (the design/spec) is just incredibly awesome. Admittedly, I started doing that after I was planning the types section of my talk and thought, "hey..." jonathan: yes, I had a similar problem. I started cleaning up a few other things in PGE and then thought "hey...." I'm vaguely tempted to put return type checks in. eek! can I at least implement 'return' first? ;-) well, given we've been thinking about it for close onto 8 years, I'd hope it has a few nice features in it by now. :) or you can, if you wish. :-P I kinda wanted that in first, so I didn't have to re-do whatever I do now. ;-) me, I *should* go to sleep now. and in fact, I don't think I have much of a choice, if I don't want to drool into my keyboard. sometime this week I also need to get talk proposals into YAPC::EU. Although how I'm going to make a talk fit in 30 mins... I don't know. :-) * TimToady aims head at pillows & sleep well, TimToady enjoy sleep :-) * TimToady hopes not to notice whether he is enjoying sleep... jonathan: did you notice that spinclad++ got rid of the "sounds good." reply from purl? pmichaud: Yeah, I saw that in backscroll! sounds good. Speakers so loud that they blow womens clothing off! % iblechbot has joined #parrot Er, I mean, spinclad++ pmichaud: 30 minutes isn't so short...I implemented and checked in "given" in a lightning talk (5 minutes) once... ;-) I'm going to submit two: one on Perl 6 OO, one on Perl 6 types. for YAPC::EU? Yes. Sounds good. :-) Oh, on the Pittsburgh Perl Workshop I'll do one for Rakudo Perl and one for PCT. I can't make it. :-( I'd already agreed to go to another workshop. On the same date. But I'm thinking of having part1/part2 for one of the talks. no problem on PPW. Also, there is talk of a post-YAPC::EU hackathon being organized in Sweden Just over the border. on mailing list there was discussion of hackathon day before and day after YAPC::EU. Is this in addition to that? jonathan, don't you come to PPW? :D ambs: When is that one? I'm doing FPW and NPW this month! 6 and 7 June we have Daniel talking on SMOP and smash talking a little on Parrot would love that have some more on parrot :) or Perl 6 * pmichaud wants to go to FPW, NPW, PtPW It's not that I wouldn't *like* to come, but I'd like to go to pretty much every Perl event going. jonathan, hehehe It'd make it the third weekend running when I was at a workshop. being decentralised, fpw have few talkers so half of it will be about parrot, rakudo, pct and Perl 6 thx to jonathan++ cognominal: Yeah, I've started on my two hour talk! pmichaud: I think this is maybe in addition, it's not in Copenhagen...let me try and find out some more. jonathan, I am still chasing a room for you in the Pastelier cognominal: thanks this would be nice for you to be in the same hotel than most of people (having somewhere to sleep)++ I even know one who choosed the camping (or is camping a faux-ami) Camping is great fun, in good weather. And great un-fun, in un-good weather. for YAPC::EU I'll already be away from home from Aug 11-17, so I don't know how many more days I can tack onto that trip. and I don't know if there is nearby power plugs. although there's also talk of a post-YAPC::EU excursion to Legoland... :-) Legoland++ cognominal: Oh yeah! Need power! No power, no code. :-O if someone commented and applied #52276, I would be motivated to do the hash composer Legoland++ LegoLand++ That said, I should probably get plenty of hacking done at FPW during the day, when I'm not giving talks. Since I won't understand anyone else's. ;-) allison: You coming to YAPC::EU? not sure if I will be able to go, but hope so jonathan, hope so :) going to yapc::eu? well, going to yapc::eu is (: going to YAPC::EU 2007) or joel, $joel->gf is it possible for a class to override the 'name' vtable entry? going to yapc::na? going to yapc::na is, like, particle, Coke, cotto, rjbs, confound, hobbs or Alias or jjore going to YAPC::EU 2007? going to YAPC::EU 2007 is probably TimToady, TheDamian, MJD, BooK, Maddingue, ambs, cog, toor, abeltje, Abigail & JettaMakka, Tux, markov, liz, woolfy, champs, Nicholas, acme, Ranguard, Barbie, pfig, davord, Trelane, Greg, DrHyde, Ovid, richardc, BinGOs, sjn, Juerd, dollarbar, dha, castaway, avar, mauke, kane & grum, ash or joel & lauren, beatnik, rGeoffrey, or not audreyt or mst or stevan and nothingmuch or abraxxa or gbjk jonathan, but you will have to deal with me peering over your shoulder purl, you fickle collection of bits. DietCoke: what? purl, going to yapc::na is also pmichaud okay, pmichaud. purl, going to YAPC::EU 2007 is also smash okay, ambs. ambs... time travel? or history? pmichaud: I've also been asked, if I'll go to a Hackathon in Russia sometime in autumn. it has been said that history is rewritting itself in very bad episodes of Survivor... Russia would be interesting. purl, going to YAPC::EU 2007 is also cognominal that is too long, cognominal pmichaud: Come! :-) jonathan: yeah I am built that way, purl ...but cognominal is stef or ESR's padawan : "qd je comprend pas, je sors mon gun" or doesn't know shit about star Wars or crapulous... cognominal++ pmichaud: It's just a long train journey for me, mind...or there's always Aeroflot. ;-) pmichaud: Maybe there would be someone willing to sponsor you to come or something, if you were interested. purl, going to yapc::na is also allison okay, allison. I'm interested but it really depends on the timing. It's a long flight for you too. The timing is something that I/we can greatly influence. I already have a ton of travel. purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008? well, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is ambs, smash purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also allison okay, allison. going to OSCON 2008? purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also cognominal okay, cognominal. purl, going to SOCON 2008? pmichaud: i haven't a clue purl, going to OSCON 2008? pmichaud: i don't know stupid me.. 2008 I did not noticed that was 2007 pmichaud: Sure, well, I'll keep you updated on that one...I just got an email titled "Another crazy idea!" yesterday from a bunch of folks enjoying lunch at YAPC::Russia. :-) purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also cog okay, ambs. purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also root okay, ambs. purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also pmichaud okay, pmichaud. no, going to yapc::eu is (: going to YAPC::EU 2008) okay, ambs. there! thanks, alisson, for noticing year problem :) nopaste? i guess nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating so far my travel for 2008 looks like: Fossil Rim, YAPC::NA, Northern Calif, OSCON, YAPC::EU, and Pittsburgh Perl Workshop oh, and Hawai'i between OSCON and YAPC::EU (some are vactions, some are conferences) *vacations "jonathan" at 85.216.151.226 pasted "plan for advanced, trying to get your head around Perl 6 style talk - any comments?" (49 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13005 That's an outline of a talk I'm planning to give at the Nordic Perl Workshop, to an audience with some more theory-ish, academic-ish folks in it. In p6object I actually have HOW/WHAT transposed It's marked as advanced rather than beginners talk. On an instance, .WHAT actually redispatches to .HOW.WHAT Oh! that turns out to be far simpler to manage. I think you're doing it right, good catch and it means that protoobjects continue to be lighter-weight and don't require any additional attributes. *nod* I think S12 even says somewhere that all meta-programming is done through HOW. I really wish I could do per-object role composition % AndyA has joined #parrot Like in the "but" operator? partially -- mainly so that I don't have to create a separate class for protoobjects % cognominal has left cognominal!~cognomina@82.67.232.89 I think under the hood it will still really be a separate class. right now the separate-protoobject-class is causing a problem because the opcode is returning an empty string for the name $S0 = typeof object # works $S0 = typeof protoobject # returns '' and I can't seem to override the 'name' vtable method. There is a name v-table method? yes. That is what calls, and it's also mentioned in docs/vtables.pod Oh, yes. You're right. I'm not sure why I can't override it though. I've just looked at the source, and I know why. :-) bug? design? where are you looking, so I can tag it for future reference in my head? % cognominal has joined #parrot bug. or, more accurately, not yet completed implementation pmichaud: I'll implement it for you now, it should be a 5 minute job. oh, that would be a huge help, yes. pmichaud: Did the talk outline look OK overall? oh, still looking. (got distracted.) :-) how long is the talk? An hour. an hour is half full! or long enough for lunch Looks like a great talk. Cool, thanks. An hour should be about right for what you have. I'm trying to give people more of the "big picture" view of the langauge. yes, the focus on mmd/types should be good for theory-ish/academic-ish folks. is this purely Perl 6 or are you also going to mention Rakudo and what it has/doesn't have thus far? Purely Perl 6. I have a second talk the next day where I will talk about Rakudo. I'm covering PCT a bit in the version of that at the Nordic Perl Workshop. excellent. Probably less so at the French Perl Workshop because cognominal is already talking about PCT there. that'a good, My talk at Stockholm uni will be a bit on Parrot architecture, but more on PCT than anything. Sell it as a kinda "playground" for making compilers for dynamic languages. the various times I've presented PCT I always getting the academics asking if it could be used for teaching a compilers course :-) Should be quite appropriate, for students who've just done a dynamic languages course. "And today we'll build our own language" or, as I do in the presentations... "And today, we'll build our own language. From scratch. During the talk." Yeah, something like that. i guess yeah, something like that is what I'd do as well * pmichaud is impressed by how many purl factoids jonathan++ manages to hit. :-) * jonathan probably just talks too much. pmichaud: Got overriding name working, just smoking it then I'll commit "jonathan" at 85.216.151.226 pasted "this now works locally" (15 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13006 wonderful. That saves me quite a few headaches. * pmichaud comes up with another cool idea for protoregexes. Paula just told me "sounds good" and internally I mentally added "Speakers so loud..." *sigh* * jonathan wonders if he dares to ask what it is lol! oh, I just figured out how I can automatically register the protoregexes without a lot of :load :init code. OMG my patch involving C passed the codingstd tests! Even trailing whitespace! pmichaud: Committed, r27621, enjoy. jonathan: many thanks time for me to do some shopping, some lunch, and then grading OK Slide writing, slovak studying and dinner cooking for me. I'll probably be afk most of the rest of today. OK, see you tomorrow then. as soon as my grading is done, though, I'll be back here again. Too much cool code to write. see you tomorrow. % Theory has joined #parrot % Senaka has joined #parrot seen chromatic chromatic was last seen on #parrot 4 days and 11 hours ago, saying: Some sort of mediated access anyway. [May 13 21:49:02 2008] % teknomunk has left teknomunk!~teknomunk@r74-195-239-111.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net purl: airports? hmmm... airports is the most likely method. lol purl: pungenday? tene: i don't know % Senaka has left #parrot % Zaba_ has joined #parrot % Zaba has left Zaba!~zaba@ip102.148.adsl.wplus.ru r27613 | pmichaud++ | p6object: : [p6object]: : * Make :name option work for registering classes. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27613 r27614 | bernhard++ | trunk: : [commit] : driver_nqp.pbc no longer needs to be built diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27614 r27615 | fperrad++ | trunk: : [Lua] : - remove useless .local (when vararg) diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27615 r27616 | bernhard++ | trunk: : Set svn:eol-style to native for languages/c99/src/cpp/t/comment_01.t diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27616 r27617 | bernhard++ | trunk: : [regex] : make test target work under Unix: : t\harness => t/harness diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27617 r27618 | allison++ | pdd25cx: : [pdd25cx] Changing the names of 'rethrow_exception' and 'rethrow_c_exception' : to 'Parrot_ex_rethrow_from_op' and 'Parrot_ex_rethrow_from_c'. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27618 r27619 | allison++ | pdd25cx: : [pdd25cx] Fixing constant strings that should be CONST_STRINGs. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27619 r27620 | fperrad++ | trunk: : [Lua] : - bytecode translation : split in & out register (binop) diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27620 r27621 | jonathan++ | trunk: : [core] Allow object's name vtable method to be overridden. diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27621 r27622 | fperrad++ | trunk: : [Lua] : - bytecode translation : split in & out register (call) diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27622 that's feather's svn working again ;) % Theory has left Theory!~Theory@c-24-21-175-208.hsd1.mn.comcast.net allison: around? nope. % Ron has joined #parrot r27623 | smash++ | trunk: : [t] : * make t/distro/file_metadata.t happy diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27623 debian++ # Updating testing to perl 5.10 debian-- # Removing SVK if you accept perl 5.10 % Ron_ has joined #parrot % Ron has left Ron!rblasch@80-121-78-84.adsl.highway.telekom.at japhb: hi privet, allison. % barney has joined #parrot allison: I sent my question about licensing of translated sample code to parrot-porters, but then I realized that may not be the right place. Since you were the visible face of Artistic 2.0, I guessed you would be the right person to ask, er, who to ask. I'll go find the message thx Hmmm... better not to include it in the repository harumph. Ah well * japhb is going to have to come up with a lot of samples from his own brain Damn having to think you don't really want to distribute large sections of example GUI code in the distribution anyway, so put them up on a page for OpenGL in Parrot I accept the decision, but can you explain why it wouldn't be OK from a license perspective to include it with Parrot? That would inform my reasoning in the future about such issues .... I guess I should have put allison: in front of that, given my delay in asking ... % NotFound has left NotFound!~notfound@43.Red-213-97-96.staticIP.rima-tde.net we need to keep the licensing of Parrot as clean as possible, so the license is the main reason not to japhb: but it really is true that a few focused examples will go a lot further toward getting people started so, even if licensing wasn't an issue, I would encourage taking the time to come up with your own examples % Ron_ has left Ron_!rblasch@80-121-76-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at (more on licensing): the main problem is that when people use open source code, they have to check the terms of the license to make sure they comply. the more different licenses mixed within the project, the harder their job is, and the more "sketchy" the project appears. allison: OK, that makes sense to me. % barney has left barney!~bernhard@dslb-084-058-190-118.pools.arcor-ip.net slavorg, trust me But I already trust me slavorg, op me % Ron has joined #parrot slavorg, op * ambs shrugs * ambs was trying to update the number of tickets. ambs, what's the number right now? 694 % japhb has changed the topic of #parrot to: Devel: 0.6.1 | http://parrotcode.org/ | 694 grrr % japhb has changed the topic of #parrot to: Devel: 0.6.1 | http://parrotcode.org/ | 694 new/open tix japhb, thanks slavorg, trust huh? slavorg, do op ambs: If you have trust, I think it should auto-op you on join. Try that? what is this number? er, try leaving and joining? % ambs has left #parrot % ambs has joined #parrot cognominal: Since the "700 bug challenge", people have been wanting to keep track of that. whatever, was trying to understand slavorg It's not automated, so occasionally someone updates it by hand you can fix one by commiting my patch http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52276 cognominal: I'm still in the commitbit process, not a committer yet slavorg, help I'm slavorg, an op-bot.Commands: trust, distrust, believe, disbelieve, leave, join. See also http://jerakeen.org/programming/slavorg slavorg, leave #parrot % slavorg has left #parrot % slavorg has joined #parrot slavorg, join #perlfr I won't join there, because I don't trust you there. slavorg has rather compartmentalized notions of trust slavorg, do op % slavorg has left slavorg!~tomi@windmill.london.pm.org % slavorg has joined #parrot japhb, please op slavorg opbots, names there next question, where is clunker % clunker3 has joined #parrot there :D % Ron has left Ron!rblasch@91-113-49-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at % ambs has changed the topic of #parrot to: Devel: 0.6.1 | http://parrotcode.org/ | 19/675 new/open tix easier that way than to sum all the time % Tux32 has joined #parrot % Tux32 has left #parrot % Psyche^ has joined #parrot ambs++ # easy is good clunker3, help Wow, I wasn't expecting all that % Patterner has left Patterner!~Psyche@e177234204.adsl.alicedsl.de % Psyche^ is now known as Patterner r27624 | allison++ | pdd25cx: