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<dalek> r27660 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [PLATFORMS]
<dalek> : - update for MinGW32
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27660
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<bacek> hi there
<bacek> I've investigated 'cmp bug'.
<bacek> Actually, when we creates variables of subclass of Integer they are just Objects inside of parrot.
<bacek> So, PMC_get_int doesn't work as supposed in src/pmc/integer.pmc.
<bacek> On replacing PMC_get_int with VTABLE_get_integer everything works.
<jonathan> bacek: Sounds like a correct fix.
<bacek> But it looks like another bug: we actually call Parrot_Integer_cmp not on Integer class.
<jonathan> No, that is the cmp vtable method of the Integer class.
<bacek> But should be SELF be Integer?
<bacek> s/be//
<jonathan> Yeah, in fact maybe you should be writing SELF.get_integer, which will produce a call through real_self, but all of that lot is meant to eventually go away.
<bacek> jonathan, ok. I'll create patch for src/pmc/integer which will call VTABLE_get_integer instead of PMC_get_int.
<bacek> But it will slow down computations.
<jonathan> Sure, that's what abstractions do. :-)
<bacek> :)
<jonathan> We may just write out own Int PMC for Rakudo in the end or something.
<jonathan> We sorta-ish need it to inherit from Any, is the thing.
<bacek> Ho. actually all other methods uses SELF.get_integer()
<bacek> So looks like this is "right way" :)
<jonathan> Yeah, I think that dispatches by real self (as in, to the Object, not just to the Integer), so it sees any overrides.
<bacek> jonathan, indeed
<bacek> what about methods like set_integer_native? Should whey use virtual dispatch?
<jonathan> Does that actually dispatch?
<jonathan> I'd have thought that just set the value in the struct?
<jonathan> Oh, do you mean calls to set_integer_native rather than the method itself?
<bacek> jonathan, yes
<jonathan> Oh, yes, calls should be virtual, otherwise things go horribly wrong for subclasses.
<bacek> jonathan, got it.
<jonathan> Well, any subclass that overrides that method and expects to have it called anyway.
<bacek> jonathan, ok. So all 'getters' except in get_integer should call SELF.get_integer() instead of PMC_int_val. 'setters' still have to use PMC_int_val. Correct?
<jonathan> Hmmm. I'd have expected to be able to override set_integer as well, perhaps...
<jonathan> What 'setters' are you thinking of?
<bacek>     VTABLE void thaw(visit_info *info) {
<bacek>         IMAGE_IO * const io = info->image_io;
<bacek>         SUPER(info);
<bacek>         if (info->extra_flags == EXTRA_IS_NULL)
<bacek>             PMC_int_val(SELF) = VTABLE_shift_integer(INTERP, io);
<bacek> or it should be changed to SELF.set_integer(...)?
<jonathan> I'd leave thaw as it is.
<jonathan> Here we're trying to deserialize and just put the data back in place.
<bacek> jonathan, there is total 12 places where PMC_int_val is in use (after my changes). And I have no idea should I change them or not...
<jonathan> I suggest, send in a patch with the ones you're sure about, and mention those you aren't and ask for opinions.
<bacek> http://pastebin.org/37243
<bacek> Looks like it is long mailqueue on RT...
<moritz> 12:08 < cognominal_> rakudo: my @a = (1);  say @a[0];
<moritz> 12:08 < exp_evalbot> OUTPUT[get_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class  'Integer'#current instr.: '_block11' pc 43 
<moritz> that's quite nasty :/
<cognominal> I filed a bug and pmichaud is aware of it
<bacek> I'm 90% sure in patch on pastebin. I'll create another one for "im-not-definetly-that-this-is-right-thing"
<moritz> cognominal: ok
<cognominal> this is these small things known by the implementors but drives the beginner crazy.
<jonathan> They are also the things that look like they should be trivial to fix, but are a lot more subtle than you'd think.
<bacek> jonathan, exactly...
<cognominal> jonathan, I know because I tried :)
<cognominal> and my try was messy and wrong.
<cognominal> jonathan++ and pmichaud++  to explain me my errors
<bacek> jonathan, ok. There is methods: set_pmc, set_integer_same, set_integer_native, increment, decrement, thaw which uses PMC_int_val.
<bacek> Plus init and initialize
<bacek> And RT#46627...
<bacek> So, should be MMD_Integer_EXACT used for check or this ticket outdated?
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<bacek> jonathan, ?
<jonathan> sorry sorry, $DAYJOB is distracting me...
<jonathan> Got a link to that RT ticket?
<jonathan> BTW, method list that touch the value directly seem reasonable to me.
<bacek> http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=46627
<bacek> In src/pmc/integer.pmc:add() there is the todo item:
<bacek> * TODO
<bacek> * check for exact Integer type
<bacek> * e.g. MMD_Integer_EXACT
<bacek> jonathan, It's almost 9pm in Sydney :)
<bacek> so my $dayjob already done
<jonathan> Ah, about 1pm here in Slovakia, so it's very much in progress here :-)
<bacek> BTW, Is different contexts implemented in rakudo? like ~@list?
<jonathan> I know +@list works
<bacek> jonathan, hey. It's lunch time!
<jonathan> Oh yeah!
<jonathan> Hmmm...I guess it depends if EXACT means it really is this very same class, or if it could be a subclass.
<jonathan> Not 100% sure on that, sorry.
<jonathan> I suggest either investigate, or comment on the ticket (cc'd to list) to get an answer.
<bacek> Ok.
<bacek> http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54474 'cmp bug' with proposed patch
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<dalek> r27661 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Bringing the pdd25cx branch up-to-date with trunk r27660.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27661
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<ambs> \o/
<ambs> DietCoke++ #finally answered my email
<cognominal> (positive reenforcement)++
<ambs> :D
<cognominal> we are all pavlovian programmers
* cognominal sweeps his keyboard
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<jonathan> cognominal: I've just over lunch thought up a temporary and small hack to make "my @a = (1);  say @a[0];" work...will give it a go later on today. Gotta sort out $dayjob stuff right now...
<cognominal> jonathan, check your mail
<cognominal> it seems there is a possibility of double room
<jonathan> Ah, OK
<jonathan> I'll take whatever I can get to sleep on! :-)
<jonathan> When I tried to book online I got a "no rooms available"...
<cognominal> my hack works if you leave out the "( )" case, second parameter of the action
<cognominal> I don't say it's clean
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* bacek start loving assembler again.
<bacek> http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54514
<bacek> Implementing mergesort on such level is old good fun.
<bacek> Like hacking soviet clone of PDP-11 back in 80-s :)
<DietCoke> bacek: any reason why you're redoing it in PIR when there's a version in C already?
<DietCoke> (I ask because I just threw out language/tcl's PIR version of sort in favor of the C version. =-)
<bacek> DietCoke, It's fun! :)
<DietCoke> I cannot argue with that. =-)
<bacek> DietCoke, and its mergesort. Not quicksort. 
<DietCoke> If you want to see tcl's usage, check out languages/tcl/runtime/builtin/lsort.pir , look for 'sort' with the quotes. (I'm passing in a comparator function that's written in PIR)
<moritz> bacek++ # -Ofun
<DietCoke> but otherwise carry on.
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<bacek> DietCoke, hmm... You invoke $P0.'sort'. 
<bacek> DietCoke, how it call to Parrot_quicksort.
<bacek> I just can't find it...
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<pmichaud> bacek:  the ResizablePMCArray PMC already knows how to 'sort'
<pmichaud> i.e., doing  $P0.'sort'  on a ResizablePMCArray ultimately calls Parrot_quicksort
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<pmichaud> src/pmc/fixedpmcarray.pmc, lines 41-46
<bacek> > ('a',1,'b',2).sort.say
<bacek> Method 'sort' not found for invocant of class 'List'
<bacek> its in rakudo...
<pmichaud> well, one would have to pass a comparison function to sort
<pmichaud> it doesn't have a default
<pmichaud> still, I'm surprised that it gives "Method 'sort' not found"  -- just a sec
<bacek> pmichaud, ok. i'll try it
<pmichaud> very interesting.
<purl> it has been said that very interesting. is that a quote?
<pmichaud> Apparently the 'sort' method doesn't get inherited by subclasses of ResizablePMCArray .
<pmichaud> (such as 'List')
<bacek> pmichaud, heh...
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "'sort' not inherited by subclasses of RPA" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13022
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<bacek> pmichaud, Can't find 'sort' in "Resizable"... But can in 'Fixed'...
<pmichaud> ResizablePMCArray isa FixedPMCArray
<pmichaud> see line 25 of resizablepmcarray.pmc
<pmichaud> pmclass ResizablePMCArray extends FixedPMCArray need_ext provides array {
<bacek> pmichaud, a! Got it...
* pmichaud does a double-take
<pmichaud> oh this is totally bizarre
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<pmichaud> big bug :-)
<particle> did we make the conversion from DYNSELF to SELF?
* bacek hides
<particle> it may be that you need to say DYNSELF.some_vtable_function for inheritance to work
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "'sort' not inherited by subclasses of RPA, but 'push' is" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13023
<particle> part of the pmc pdd is to convert DYNSELF to SELF and SELF to STATICSELF
<pmichaud> I'm guessing that superclass methods aren't being inherited properly
<pmichaud> i.e., given that RPA is a PMC class and RPA inherits from FPA
<pmichaud> if we create a subclass of RPA, then the methods of FPA aren't being included in the subclass
<particle> perhaps.
<particle> you can test by creating a subclass of FPA
<particle> see if sort works
<pmichaud> oh, good idea.
<purl> pmichaud: Good Idea: Visiting the circus. Bad Idea: Having the circus visit you.
<pmichaud> ah, it's more complex than that.
<pmichaud> bacek:  short answer:  until we get inheritance working, we need a 'sort' method for rakudo :-)
<pmichaud> bacek: however, you could copy all of the elements of a list into a FixedPMCArray, and then use its sort method
<bacek> pmichaud, oooo... Good answer :)
<pmichaud> and then cast that back into a List
<particle> that won't work with lazy lists, but we don't implement those yet
<particle> well, i suppose it will work... just need to make it unlazy before conversion to FPA
<pmichaud> correct
<bacek> ok. Is there anything useful that "casual developer" can implement for rakudo?
<pmichaud> hard to sort a lazy list :-)
<pmichaud> except in special cases
<bacek> pmichaud, why? Just use old good bubble-sort
<pmichaud> well, we can sort a lazy list, but it's no longer lazy.
<particle> bacek: look for functions from S29 that aren't implemented
<bacek> particle, 'sort' for example? :)
<pmichaud> also, note that the 'sort' method is an inplace sort
<pmichaud> (in FixedPMCArray)
<pmichaud> let me finish updating NEWS, then I'll file a ticket for 'sort'
<particle> pmichaud: can we implement gather/take yet?
* particle updates and checks roadmap
<pmichaud> particle: I haven't really looked at it yet.  That would be way down the list on roadmap, though
<moritz> you need some sort of dynamic scoping for gather/take
<moritz> even if it's just global variable in the interpreter of some sort
<particle> that we can do
<pmichaud> oh, dynamic scoping isn't too hard
<pmichaud> that's pretty easy in Parrot.
* bacek start thinking that implementing sort as creating FPA is good idea...
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<moritz> actually sort() could return a lazy list
<pmichaud> bacek:  for now I'd be happy with any 'sort' implementation that works, whether it uses the one in FPA or not.
<moritz> than it could run in O(n) if you only take the first or first two items
<moritz> and O(n log n) if you take them all
<pmichaud> well, taking only the first item is effectively    "min"  :-)
<pmichaud> but yes, it would be possible for sort to return a lazy list.
<particle> yep, and O(n) may be very large for list items calculated from values stored in a db
<dalek> r27662 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Adding new exception type.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27662
<dalek> r27663 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Update NEWS.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27663
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<DietCoke> pmichaud: (doesn't work) but it works in tcl... odd.
<pmichaud> does tcl subclass ResizablePMCArray ?
<DietCoke> checking.
<DietCoke> yes.
<pmichaud> is the subclass a PIR subclass or a PMC subclass ?
<DietCoke> PMC
<pmichaud> ah, that's the difference.
<DietCoke> ISTR there's a ticket about the PIR from PMC not quite working.
<pmichaud> yes, but I thought that had been resolved long ago.
<pmichaud> but it's not working for superclasses of PMC classes
<DietCoke> possibly, but if you're saying it doesn't work...
<pmichaud> I have a simple test case written -- just cleaning it up
<DietCoke> how do you superclass a PMC? =-)
<DietCoke> (test) hokay.
<pmichaud> (it's not working for methods of superclasses of PMC classes...)
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "methods in PMC classes and inheritance - b0rken" (39 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13024
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<jonathan> Segfault bad.
<pmichaud> hmm.
<pmichaud> in this case it's because 'lower'() does bad things.
<pmichaud>         PMC * const    ret = pmc_new_noinit(INTERP, SELF->vtable->base_type);
<pmichaud>         PMC_str_val(ret)   = s;
<particle> excellent test case, pmichaud
<pmichaud> so, segfault here is due to the 'lower' implementation, not inheritance.  Let's try...
<jonathan> PMC inheritance isn't working yet as PDD 17 spec'd it, I don't think.
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "inheritance b0rken in subclasses of PMCs -- #2" (32 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13025
<pmichaud> well, it works for at least one level.
<pmichaud> for example, the 'push', 'pop', etc. methods defined in RPA work for PIR subclasses of RPA
<bacek> pmichaud, my version of 'sort' attached to ticket.
<bacek> pmichaud, and i try to use FPA...
<jonathan> pmichaud: I meant more that, the way it's implemented now.
<pmichaud> here we go -- this illustrates it nicely.
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "inheritance b0rken in subclasses of PMCs -- #3" (43 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13026
<pmichaud> filing ticket(s)
<bacek> pmichaud, looks like I found another bug...
<bacek> bacek@icebolt:~/src/parrot/languages/perl6$ cat s3.t 
<bacek> my @l = ('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 1, 2, 3, 4);
<bacek> my @l1 = sort { $^b <=> $^a } , @l;
<bacek> say ~@l1;
<bacek> bacek@icebolt:~/src/parrot/languages/perl6$ ../../parrot perl6.pbc s3.t 
* DietCoke ponders asking ambs to post his script.
<bacek> It uses FPA sorting...
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<bacek> http://pastebin.org/37282 impl.
<dalek> r27664 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : update freebsd
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27664
<dalek> r27665 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Changing name of 'dumpcore' macro to 'DUMPCORE' to match coding
<dalek> : standards, with additional comment for clarity.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27665
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<dalek> r27666 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Missed one DUMPCORE.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27666
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<dalek> allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
<dalek> link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
<shorten> dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy
<jhorwitz> pmichaud: ping
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<bacek> $ cat s3.t 
<bacek> my @l = ('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 1, 2, 3, 4);
<bacek> my @l1 = @l.sort;
<bacek> say ~@l1;
<bacek> $ ../../parrot perl6.pbc s3.t 
<bacek> 1 a 2 b c 3 4 d
<bacek> yeeek...
<particle> who's sort is that?
<pmichaud> jhorwitz: pong (but has to be quick -- have to go to a lawyer's office in 13)
<bacek> FPA
<pmichaud> (er, have to *be* at a lawyer's office in 13)
<pmichaud> (sort):   what comparison function is being used?
<bacek> http://pastebin.org/37282 
<bacek> infix:cmp
<bacek> 	get_global $P0, "infix:cmp"
<bacek>     sorted = 'sort'($P0, list :flat)
<pmichaud> oh.  perhaps infix:leg would be a better choice, since we know that parrot's 'cmp' isn't good.
<jhorwitz> pmichaud: catching the exception worked
<bacek> pmichaud, same results
<pmichaud> jhorwitz++  # excellent
<jhorwitz> all tets pass, should i commit or wait for after the release?
<jhorwitz> tests
<pmichaud> I think committing is okay.  Or it can wait for the release -- your choice.
<particle> be careful with core parrot changes
<particle> language changes are ok
<pmichaud> TimToady++ helped get jonathan and I set aright on how to handle the $!, $/, $! items
<jhorwitz> particle: this is for rakudo
<particle> ship it!
<jhorwitz> giddyup
<pmichaud> language changes are okay, yes, but we'd still like to make sure that rakudo passes 'make test' in a release.
* bacek voting for http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54514
<jonathan> Aye, I may well look at that tomorrow
<jonathan> ($1, etc, not the ticket just pointed at...)
<particle> pmichaud: yes, and i'll run make test :)
<jonathan> erm, $!
<pmichaud> gotta run to lawyers -- bbiaw
<jonathan> bacek++ # sort patch
<dalek> allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
<dalek> link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
<shorten> dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy
<bacek> and http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54474 
<bacek> oops.
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<bacek> compiler complains about 54474
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<Tene> Okay, I'd really like to figure out all the issues with properly handling $_ as a block parameter.
<Tene> Maybe I should send mail to the list.
<particle> did you see timtoady, jonathan, and pmichaud talking last night about $_?
<particle> the answers lie within
<Tene> Fantastic!
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<Tene> Last night was perhaps the wrong night to take a break.
<NotFound> Hello.
<Tene> particle++ # information!
* Tene scrollback
<purl> scrollback is your friend
<dalek> r27667 | jhorwitz++ | trunk:
<dalek> : catch 'No such caller depth' when subs are called from embedded environment (RT #54444)
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27667
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<bacek> 27666 crashes on make test... 
<Tene> Okay, that's some good reading for lunch.
<bacek> Failed 5/584 test programs. 19/11275 subtests failed.
* bacek looser...
<purl> it has been said that looser is an adjective
<bacek> please anyone check patch in  http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54474. I'm not sure about correctness...
* Tene looks.
<Tene> integer2.diff?
<bacek> Tene, yep
<Tene> Does it cause any new test failures?
<Tene> I don't see any problems with it.
<bacek> Tene, I'm running tests right now... It takes a long time...
* Tene nods.
<Tene> Hm.  I've got an eight-cpu box at my office... I should run tests there.
* Tene bbiab
<bacek> I run them on my old laptop... 10 minutes... I... can't... wait... any... more...
<bacek> $ prove t/pmc/integer.t 
<bacek> t/pmc/integer......ok     
<bacek> All tests successful.
<purl> Are you feeling lucky?
<dalek> r27668 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Change 'push_new_c_exception_handler' to 'Parrot_ex_add_c_handler',
<dalek> : and remove 'new_c_exception_handler'.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27668
<bacek> My middle name is 'bad'...
<Tene> bacek: looks okay to me, then.
<bacek> purl, whanna cookie?
<purl> i don't know, bacek
<bacek> Tene, it's good.
<bacek> purl, cookie?
<purl> C is for cookie, it's good enough for me!
<dalek> allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
<dalek> link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
<shorten> dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy
<Tene> purl: no, C is for lettuce, it's good enough for me!
<purl> okay, Tene.
<Tene> Hm, that was the wrong factoid.
<Tene> Oops.
<bacek> purl, say squaak
<purl> bacek: i'm not following you...
<bacek> Tene, same number of failing tests.
<bacek> Files=584, Tests=11275, 501 wallclock secs...
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<bacek> ok. time to sleep.
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<pmichaud> jhorwitz: ping
<jhorwitz> pmichaud: pong
<pmichaud> jhorwitz: can we close #54444 ?
<jhorwitz> i was thinking about that.  i guess we can, unless we want to question the behavior of $P0['lexpad';1]
<jhorwitz> that could be a separate ticket though
<pmichaud> I think it's reasonable to question $P0['lexpad';1], but that probably belongs in the parrot queue.
<pmichaud> so yes, it'd be a separate ticket.
<jhorwitz> the let's close it out!  :)
<pmichaud> and it may be a moot point anyway, given how $! $/ $_ are to be handled so I think we just close it.
<jhorwitz> sounds good to me.
* pmichaud likes seeing tickets get closed.
<davidfetter> mmm...closed tickets :d
* jhorwitz likes 24 hours turnarounds  :)
<pmichaud> it will be an interesting milestone when rakudo has more outstanding tickets than parrot :-)
* davidfetter figures outstandingness is in the eye of the beholder
<particle> pmichaud: 'say False' doesn't work.
<particle> Bool::False, sure.
<pmichaud> rt#54444 closed.
<pmichaud> where is 'False' defined?
<pmichaud> is it an imported global, or ... ?
<particle> src/classes/Bool.pir
<purl> src/classes/Bool.pir is where i was looking
<pmichaud> no, I mean in the spec.
<particle> ah. gotta check that.
<pmichaud> S12
<pmichaud>     our bit enum *bool <False True>;
<pmichaud>     our bit enum *taint <Untainted Tainted>;
<particle> hrmm. we don't do enum now.
<particle> or bit, for that matter
<pmichaud> for now, just create global entries for False and True that point to 0 and 1
<particle> so, for the spectests, should i modify them to use Bool::False except when explicitly testing False?
<particle> ...or should i create globals in Bool.pir?
<particle> or both?
<purl> both are highly experimental at this point though
<pmichaud> create globals.
<particle> forget both
<purl> particle: I forgot both
<particle> ok.
<pmichaud> "ack False" shows that it occurs enough in the spec that we might as well create the global.
<pmichaud> jonathan might be interested in implementing enums, since they're really just classes acting as roles :-)
<jonathan> Ooh! Shiny feature!
<pmichaud> but for now I think it's a reasonable workaround to create these as globals.
<pmichaud> how often does False appear in the spectests?
<particle> i'm looking at S03-operators
<particle> haven't looked outside there yet
<particle> not.t and true.t, and i'll be adding some tests, and probably false.t
<particle> hrmm. maybe not. is there a 'false' op?
<pmichaud> S12 has:
* particle acks spec
<pmichaud> Never compare a value to "C<true>", or even "C<True>".  Just use it
<pmichaud> in a boolean context.
<pmichaud> so, I think that S03-operators is wrong to be using False here
<pmichaud> if we're testing boolean-ness, we should be using ok() or nok()
<particle> ok, so that should be nok() yep
<pmichaud> if we're testing the type of the returned value, we need to use =:= or something similar
<pmichaud> or check the .WHAT() value, or something like that.
<pmichaud> (and =:= doesn't quite work in rakudo yet)
<particle> may i check that Bool::True != Bool::False?
<pmichaud> sure
<particle> or that True == Bool::True?
<pmichaud> keeping in mind that  True == Bool::True is really the same as   +(True) == +(Bool::True)
<pmichaud> i.e., it's a numeric comparison, not a value comparison.
<particle> yep
<pmichaud> I think more useful is to ask   Bool::True == 1
<particle> in not.t, i want to test explicitly that True != False, etc
<particle> we can't guarantee that Bool::True == 1 can we?
<particle> it may depend on the vm/compiler/platform's identity of truth
<pmichaud> it's a question of numification
<particle> ok, then it's +Bool::True == 1
<pmichaud> except that infix:<==>  implies numeric context on its arguments
<pmichaud> so Bool::True == 1
<particle> hrmm. ok.
<pmichaud> I can't find that explicitly in the spec, fwiw.
<particle> ah. === can't be tested, though
<particle> or =:=
<pmichaud> the spec does say that Order::Increase, Order::Same, Order::Decrease numerify to -1, 0, +1,   so I think it's reasonable to expect Bool::False and Bool::True to numerify to 0, 1
<Tene> 1, 0, -1 == Bool::True, Bool::False, Bool::FileNotFound?
<pmichaud> heh
<pmichaud> FileNotFound is likely an exception of some sort, though.
<moritz> lol
<particle> i'm kinda surprised Bool::True isn't a Failure
<pmichaud> Bool is, though.
<dalek> Michal Jurosz | RFP: Parrot Needs Better Smoke Reports:
<dalek> link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?rfp_parrot_needs_better_smoke_reports
<shorten> dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bfeof
<pmichaud> oh, I guess Bool is just an undefined value -- that's not necessarily a Failure.
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<Tene> Mmm.  make -j 9 test
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<Tene> real	3m6.804s
<Tene> user	1m51.388s
<Tene> sys	0m45.239s
<particle> hrmm, there's no nok() func in fudge or Test.pm
<Tene> Hm.
<Tene> I wonder if rakudo makes a new block for this: print $_ for @a;
<particle> i expect that what's left of 'for' is a closure
<purl> I hardly KNOW her.
<Tene> Yeah.  That makes sense.
<Tene> 17:07 <@TimToady> and the presence of $_ is not enough to force "I must have a parameter"
<Tene> A bare closure without placeholder arguments that uses $_ (either explicitly or implicitly) is treated as though $_ were a formal parameter:
<Tene> From S04
<Tene> So I guess that statement *only* applies to bare closures.
<Tene> Wait, formal parameter with a default of OUTER::<$_>
<Tene> So do I need to figure out which blocks are "bare" and treat them differently?
<particle> i assume bare means not a sub or pointy block
<Tene> Ah.
<Tene> So for, while, etc. are bare?
<particle> doesn't for take a pblock?
<particle> gotta check STD on that
<Tene> It can.
* Tene sleeps.
<Tene> erm... no.
* Tene teaches.
<particle> just half your brain sleeps, then.
<DietCoke> allison: ping.
<allison> dietcoke: ya
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<DietCoke> was going to comment on r27670, but I think I need to see the whole function. moment.
<DietCoke> ssh to feather sloooow all of a sudden.
<DietCoke> would you mind a small rework on that that instead of nesting the ifs, did each comparison in sequence, failing first rather than last?
<allison> sure
<DietCoke> also, does it matter if you check base_type -and- isa ?
<DietCoke> doesn't base type win?
<allison> just the base type is good enough
<DietCoke> k.
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<allison> (it was checking base_type || isa, but that was just wrong
<allison> also it was checking base type against a literal, which didn't allow for inheritance
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<allison> oh, do you want to make the change, or shall I
<DietCoke> either or.
<allison> go for it, I'm digging into the 'can_handle' bullet point (the last one aside from language testing)
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<DietCoke> is anyone logged into feather? according to ssh I'm connecting, but then hanging.
<particle> svn.pugscode.org is down, too
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<jhorwitz> hm, getting "attempt to access code outside of current code segment" in my pure perl mod_perl6 code
* jhorwitz figures out where to even start deubgging that
<particle> the joy of embedding parrot....
<jhorwitz> it obviously works with the PIR version of mod_perl6
<DietCoke> that sounds suspiciously like the inferior runloop!
<particle> yes, it does.
<purl> if you say so...
<jhorwitz> inferior cuz it doesn't work?  ;-)
<DietCoke> Sounded like some CS term.
<DietCoke> me, being a lowly engineer, just nod my head.
<particle> inferior like the flyers.
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<jhorwitz> that was low
<particle> oh, but it was fun :)
<jhorwitz> but all will be well when cindy is put in his place
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<jhorwitz> does each compile and load_bytecode produce a separate code segment? 
<particle> i believe so
<jhorwitz> hm.  then i don't understand how code from one segment can call a sub from a load_bytecode w/o generating that error.  apparently there's lots i don't understand.  :)
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<particle> oops, i'm probably getting confused with compilation unit
<jhorwitz> that would make sense.
<particle> chromatic will tell you whether each compile and load_bytecode produce a separate code segment, jhorwitz
<jhorwitz> this chromatic...where can i buy one?
<chromatic> chromatic store, where else?
<jhorwitz> we don't have those out east
<chromatic> I *believe* they produce separate packfile structures, which mean separate code segments.
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<chromatic> Okay, the first part I know.  The implication I believe.
<particle> remember when jonathan started the bytecode changes, and disappeared for a while?
<particle> seems the same thing happened to infinoid.
<particle> "don't touch the bytecode pdd."
* jhorwitz points fingers
<Infinoid> oh yeah, pdd13, I still have a stack frame pointing to that, around here somewhere
<DietCoke> juerd?
<purl> juerd is root or at http://juerd.nl/
<DietCoke> juerd email?
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<particle> juerd@
<particle> juerd is also juerd@juerd.nl
<purl> okay, particle.
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<DietCoke> emailed him.
<pmichaud> feather is incommunicado?
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<particle> yes, so it seems
<pmichaud> oh, it just came back up.
<particle> here's dalek!
<particle> yay
<pmichaud> unless it's up-down-up-down-up-down.
<particle> well, i finally was able to commit to svn.pugscode.org
<chromatic> That's good.  It was sick of you stringing it along.
<pmichaud> +34 to #parrotsketch
<chromatic> pmichaud, all tests passed using autoboxing for that lower method call you suggested.
<chromatic> How urgent is the fix?
<pmichaud> not
<pmichaud> not urgent
<Tene> Ack, #ps in .5
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<dalek> r27673 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [rakudo] add 'nok' sub to Test.pm
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27673
* Tene svn log | grep tene
<pmichaud> I only noticed it while trying to find out about inheritance among pmc types, so I wanted to ticket it before I forgot about it
<pmichaud> but in scanning I noticed a number of places where methods are creating return PMCs for base type values and they no longer need to be (and are more robust if they don't)
<chromatic> Robust in the sense that PMC_x_val is not robust?
<pmichaud> that, plus also the fact that autoboxing honors .hll type mapping
<pmichaud> and the fact that it's silly to put the result into a PMC if we're just going to cast it right back to an int
<pmichaud> i.e.,  $S0 = $P0.'lower'()   was creating an unnecessary PMC.
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<chromatic> Makes sense.
* Tene pre-reports
<Tene> I'm not sure if that's the right time interval.  Didn't check the dates.  Sounds right, though.
<particle> http://cia.vc/stats/author/tene
<particle> the last week has day of week, before that is listed by date
<DietCoke> mmm, reduce pmc pressure.
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<Tene> Ack, I need to commit my List::uniq patch.
<Tene> eh, I'll do it during the middle of the release.
<DietCoke> :P
<chromatic> If you want to commit now, go ahead.
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<dalek> allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
<dalek> link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
<shorten> dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy
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<DietCoke> PS in 2
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<DietCoke> from juerd:
<DietCoke> Yes, Apache2 consumed all memory again. I've stopped apache2, and am
<DietCoke> hoping someone will volunteer to figure out what is wrong because I
<DietCoke> don't have the time.
<pmichaud> how long is apache2 running before it eats up all memory?
<Juerd> A few days
<pmichaud> okay, looking.
<Juerd> If you need root access let me know.
<pmichaud> you might not know the answer, but is it the master process consuming all of the memory or one of the subprocesses?
<Juerd> I don't know.
<Juerd> I know that the linux kernel spits out messages about processes called apache2
<Juerd> See http://c14.convolution.nl/munin/perl6.nl/feather1.perl6.nl-memory.html
<shorten> Juerd's url is at http://xrl.us/bkshd
<pmichaud> it looks to me as though apache2 is set with "MaxRequestsPerChild 0"
<pmichaud> this means that child processes never exit
<pmichaud> often that's okay, but it can also mean that memory consumption can grow big if something gets out of whack
<Juerd> This started a week ago
<Juerd> I set that to 100
<pmichaud> is apache2 heavily loaded on feather?  If not, then setting a MaxRequestsPerChild value might be worthwhile to make sure that child processes are recycled
<Juerd> pmichaud: Not at all
<dalek> r27674 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Fix trailing whitespace.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27674
<dalek> r27675 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Updated PLATFORMS for Aix/PPC and Solaris 10/gcc/cc (Paco, RT #54524).
<pmichaud> yes, I'd recommend MaxRequestsPerChild then.  It's not as if there's a huge cost to starting up an additional child every so often
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27675
<dalek> r27676 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Change 'can_handle' in ExceptionHandler to allow for subclasses of Exception.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27676
<dalek> r27677 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [RELEASE]
<dalek> : update LANGUAGES_STATUS.pod from languages-smoke results
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27677
<Juerd> I've started apache2. To all: if you have any time in between, please run top and evaluate apache2's memory use
<dalek> r27678 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [RELEASE]
<dalek> : update LANGUAGES_STATUS.pod from manual tests
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27678
<DietCoke> Juerd++
<pmichaud> Juerd:  I'll check in on it every few hours
<Juerd> Great; thank you
<pmichaud> Andy: how do I submit an article to rakudo.org, btw?
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<pmichaud> chromatic: I think you should be good-to-go as far as CPAN indexing is concerned.
<chromatic> Thank you.
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<particle> thanks for doing that, pmichaud++, i got distracted by a phone call about a job
<particle> pmichaud: i think the mt.cgi link is on perlbuzz to login to rakudo.org
<dalek> r27679 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [distro] Updated scaffolding for 0.6.2 release.
<pmichaud> I try using the mt.cgi link, but it just cycles me back to the perlbuzz page.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27679
<particle> http://perlbuzz.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt.cgi
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<particle> well, i can't remember my password, so i'm no help
<Eevee> openid++
<dalek> r27680 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [distro] Added a missing line from NEWS.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27680
<pmichaud> whenever I follow the mt.cgi link, it asks for my username and password.  I enter it, and it takes me to the "Your Profile" form.  I can go back to the original (perlbuzz) page and I appear to be logged in, but I don't see any way to post a new article.  
<pmichaud> (and, of course, my goal is to contribute to rakudo.org, not necessarily perlbuzz)
<particle> yes, rakudo.org uses the same mt instance, so there's only one login iiuc
<jonathan> pmichaud: Maybe you have an accout, but haven't been given permissions to post on rakudo.org?
<pmichaud> that's my guess :-)
<jonathan> I can't grant you 'em, I already checked that.
<particle> bug andy
<pmichaud> 19:00 <pmichaud> Andy: how do I submit an article to rakudo.org, btw?
<pmichaud> :-)
<particle> Andy ack alester perlbuzz splint lint headerizer petdance # all points bulletin :)
<particle> ...if that doesn't make his irc client explode...
<Andy> Who's talkin' about me?
<pmichaud> ALL OF US!
<purl> I think that we're all bozos on this bus.  Except of course for the bots.
<Andy> CAP'N!  SHE CANNAE TAKE MANY MAR KEYWERDS!
<pmichaud> Andy:  how do I submit an article to rakudo.org?
<Andy> Let me see if you have permsssions on there.
<Andy> Have I given you permissions before?
<pmichaud> the group consensus is "probably not"
<pmichaud> I thought you had, but perhaps we only talked about it.
* particle needs a password reset, too
<pmichaud> someone suggested that I should cross-post some of my use.perl articles to rakudo.org
<Andy> oh yes please.
* jonathan takes blame for the suggestion
<jonathan> pmichaud: I was lying in bed last night trying to sleep and failing to...and thinking about :scope('context')
<jonathan> I'm thinking maybe we should do something more general
<pmichaud> ...as in?
<jonathan> We're already going to need to have a way to cutomize context anyway
<chromatic> Release tagged, tarball made and tested, uploading now.
<Andy> ok, you're now a contributor on rakudo
<dalek> r27681 | chromatic++ | RELEASE_0_6_2:
<dalek> : Tagged release 0.6.2 from r27680
<Andy> not sure I can reset your PW.  LOoking.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27681
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<jonathan> :scope('custom'), and some other way to say how to do a get and store
<DietCoke> chromatic++
<jonathan> chromatic++
<NotFound> Someone can take a look at #54384 ?
<confound> chromatic++
<confound> (everyone else involved, too)++
<Andy> ok, I just reset it.
<pmichaud> oh.  well, for :scope('custom')  someone could actually do that by deriving a new class from PAST::Val and adding their custom scope as a method
<Andy> Password was reset for user 'pmichaud' (user #97). Password was sent to the following address: pmichaud@pobox.com
<chromatic> I think creating a new function of a similar name but different behavior is a mistake, NotFound.
<pmichaud> Andy:  thanks!
<chromatic> I'm starting to wonder if disallowing NULL strings in bytecode is wise.
<jonathan> Yeah, true.
<Andy> pmichaud: Thank YOU.
<Andy> Rakudo.org is happy to have much content.
<pmichaud> okay, I have to go pick up kids from school.
<pmichaud> bbi30
<jonathan> It just seems to me like Perl 6 has very specific needs out of :scope('context')
<jonathan> ok, sure
<NotFound> chromatic: agree, but I was worried about breaking the pmc that uses the current version.
<pmichaud> (context)  well, perhaps Rakudo should be the case that demonstrates adding custom PAST node types then :-)
<pmichaud> I just know that I have enough use for context variables in implementing various tools that it has generic value
<jonathan> Ah, OK, that was going to be my question...is it generic enough.
<pmichaud> a lot of things in PGE and PCT can be made a lot simpler if there's a generic context capability available
<chromatic> One problem with adding NULL checks to ops (another idea) is that we have to do those checks in the JIT as well, and that's not trivial.
<chromatic> At least, I find modifying ops in the JIT non-trivial.
<DietCoke> Is it helpful to put in #line directives in the C generated from PMCs? more often than not it's getting in my way.
<pmichaud> I tend to agree that custom handling of null seems wrong.
<pmichaud> okay, gotta run. back in a while.
<particle> andy: could you reset my pw, too?
<Andy> sheesh
<NotFound> chromatic: the check is not done at the op level, but at a function called by the opcode.
<Andy> ANYONE ELSE?  HUH?
<dalek> r27682 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [Lua]
<dalek> : - bytecode translation : minor refactor
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27682
<Tene> Andy: mine too!
<chromatic> I know.  I'm just brainstorming different approaches.
<particle> chromatic++ andy++ surliness++
<Andy> Tene: Do you actually have one?
<Tene> Well, no.  You used capital letters, though.
<Andy> Password was reset for user 'particle' (user #131). Password was sent to the following address: jerry.gay@gmail.com
<NotFound> chromatic: I've fixed some days ago a problem caused by that, the opcode function checked for null but the jitted version not.
<Eevee> Andy: me too!  (I don't have an account but heckling you seems to be the popular thing to do)
<particle> thanks andy!
<Andy> You're welcome particle!
<NotFound> So doing it in the opcodes is at least error-prone.
<Andy> The rest of you can go jump in a lake!
<Andy> Rrraaarrr!
<chromatic> How about a creek?  I have a creek, not a lake.
<Eevee> I have a bathtub
<PerlJam> Andy: give me an account so that I too may ask that you reset my password.  :)
<PerlJam> and then we can all jump in a creek and splash around like school children
<Eevee> there are now more people without accounts asking than people with
<jonathan> Will if all of the people asking for them are actually going to post... ;-)
<PerlJam> I don't even know what accounts people are talking about, but if it's parrot or perl6 related and I have time, I'll try to post.
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<Eevee> I'm not sure I have anything to say yet that others couldn't say better
<NotFound> Eevee: maybe the others can but doesn't.
<PerlJam> Eevee: Or maybe your perspective is just as valuable as anyone else's perspective (more so if you share).
<NotFound> And in the worst case we can have a lot of fun blaming you }:)
<Eevee> oh gosh so much pressure
<barney> quit
<jonathan> Eevee: If you're contributing stuff, you have a pretty good perscpective on the thing you're contributing. ;-)
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<jonathan> pressure++ ;-)
<japhb> Cue Queen
<NotFound> Press any Eevee to continue.
<Eevee> they told me about this in middle school
<Eevee> I'm supposed to just say no
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<Eevee> jonathan: when I manage to make it past one patch I will perhaps consider myself 'contributing'  :P
<chromatic>  /topic #parrot Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 19/674 new/open tix
<Eevee> but!  I will keep it in mind
% chromatic has changed the topic of #parrot to: Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 19/674 new/open tix
<Eevee> may want to update parrotcode.org
<japhb> YAY!
<DietCoke> Eevee: one thing at a time.
* chromatic wishes crow.pir added the next release date.
<particle> hrmm. that'd take some doing :(
<particle> unless it's blind lookup in a file
<particle> or somebody writes DateTime.pir
<ambs> \o/
<chromatic> It's in the JSON file.
<particle> oh. well then, that's *simple*
<chromatic> ... or at least a placeholder, 'cuz I forgot it.
<particle> i don't remember ever announcing the next release date for a release
<pmichaud> (contributions)   from a marketing perspective, what makes more people likely to participate is if they see other people of about the same perceived skill level participating
<chromatic> step nine: Don’t forget to include the next scheduled release date.
<pmichaud> so posts from anyone who is working/playing with Parrot/Rakudo are helpful, even if they seem "trivial"
<pmichaud> so, I can start ripping out deprecated features now?
* pmichaud clicks his Code Ripper(TM) scissors menacingly
<chromatic> Do it.
<pmichaud> muwahahahaha!
<NotFound> And fast!
<Eevee> oh dear.  just don't run with those
<pmichaud> I never "run", I just "execute" with them.
* Eevee groan
<pmichaud> ("with extreme prejudice"  :-)
<Eevee> I concede pun defeat
<NotFound> Off with his head!
<pmichaud> I have Code Ripper(TM) scissors.  NotFound appears to have a Code Ripper Chainsaw(TM)
<pmichaud> of course, I think I'm the only one who can really do a "Texas Chainsaw Massacre."  :-P
<chromatic> Wow.  You can paste HTML into Blogger and it will still mangle your HTML all to pieces.  That's... useful.
<particle> chromatic: you left in 'aloha' and 'mahalo' in the announcements?
<NotFound> pmichaud: I think that my LOC contribution will overflow negative integer range.
<pmichaud> NotFound: I think that negative code contributions should be multiplied by a factor of -2
* DietCoke fixes a C bug. woot.
<chromatic> I pulled them out of some of the announcements.
<DietCoke> chromatic: can you vet my patch on #54474 ?
<particle> chromatic: the file to fix is tools/util/templates.json
<DietCoke> ... why is aloha in that file?
* DietCoke glares at particle for leaving an surprise.
<NotFound> pmichaud: and the bonus added is to close several tickets about fixing the dead functions.
<pmichaud> NotFound: indeed, bonus
<chromatic> ahhhhhhhh overload!
<particle> ...that's what happens when you release parrot while on vacation...
<DietCoke> chromatic: ahhhhhhh freakout?
<Eevee> we need to upgrade chromatic to quad-core
<DietCoke> ... that's like having a 64-bit leo.
<NotFound> Or clone it and make a cluster.
<chromatic> Mostly I'm trying to figure out 1) why Blogger helpfully inserts extra <p></p> tags in your HTML when you've already provided it with valid HTML and doing so actually contravenes the HTML specification and 2) who to stab in the face to get it to change.
<DietCoke> did you use html mode or helpful edit mode?
<particle> robrt's probably the closest target
<DietCoke> you could join google and work on it on your skunkworks.
<DietCoke> skunkworks?
<DietCoke> bad purl.
<purl> I'm not bad, I'm just coded that way
<chromatic> I used HTML mode.  It mangled my HTML.  "OH, a newline after a paragraph tag!  That must mean to add another paragraph tag!  Hooray!  Oh, a newline in an open tag!  What could possibly go wrong if I add a paragraph tag there!  Nesting tags within tags is FUN!"
<Eevee> s/\n//g?
<chromatic> Yeah, because whitespace is significant in HTML.
<Eevee> or replace with a space, or add <!-- at the end of a line and --> at the start of the next, or some similar such terrible hack
<Eevee> or blogger might have some switch or custom tag to disable its own autoformatting, like lj does
<chromatic> I'm going to go with the face-stabbing, just because it's less of a hack.
<chromatic> Coke: your patch looks fine.
<PerlJam> chromatic: looks like you'll just have to take time out of parrot/$job/etc. to write a nice blog tool.
<PerlJam> chromatic: you could even write it in parrot/perl6  :)
<NotFound> Are you embedding whitespace code in html?
<DietCoke> chromatic: danke.
<chromatic> Between tags, yes.
<NotFound> Will be nice: <script lang='whitespace'>... No need to hide the code for old browsers.
<dalek> r27683 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tools] Added next release date to Crow's release notes template.
<dalek> : Added more Haole to the release text.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27683
<Tene> So, if I wanted to contribute posts to planet.parrotcode.org or wherever else someone wanted blog-like contributions, where should I do that?
<DietCoke> planet is an aggregator.
<DietCoke> so if you have a blog where you post parroty things, let me know.
<DietCoke> creating a blog on blogspot is easy. don't know if allison intended all committers to have access to parrotblog, either.
<allison> parrotblog is pretty open
<Tene> http://use.perl.org/~tene/journal/ -- I'd post here if it were aggregated there.
<allison> I've been inviting anyone who wants to blog there
* japhb wishes he had time to *both* contribute code *and* prose.  Sadly, I don't really have time for either one, so I'm going with code for now.
<DietCoke> I'd aggregate there if you posted there. =-)
<dalek> r27684 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [PMC] Made lower method return a STRING, not a boxed PMC.  (Patrick Michaud, RT
<dalek> : #54522).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27684
<allison> I keep meaning to post, but don't get to it
<DietCoke> I did one!
* DietCoke sits on his haunches and expects a biscuit.
* allison gives coke a biscuit
<PerlJam> allison: so how does one get a login to parrotblog?
<DietCoke> you need a google id, IIRC.
<DietCoke> (it's just bloger)
<allison> let me know what your gmail account email address is
<DietCoke> er, blogger.
<allison> and I'll send out an invite
<pmichaud> I'd like to post to parrotblog.org, if I can't already.
<dalek> r27685 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [Lua]
<dalek> : - bytecode translation : more refactor & clean up
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27685
<DietCoke> leopard?
<purl> leopard is a panther or not Panther or OS X 10.5 or at http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "flamebait: diff t/steps/auto_pmc-03.t t/steps/auto_pmc-04.t" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13028
<Tene> allison: srweeks@gmail.com
<pmichaud> my gmail account login address is pmichaud@pobox.com
<pmichaud> or else patrick.michaud@gmail.com
<Tene> Hm.  I should set up a google account for an address I check.
<pmichaud> (if it requires a gmail.com address)
<japhb> pmichaud: (flamebait) nuke it 'til it glows!  Well, one of them, anyway
<allison> tene & patrick: invites sent
<allison> pmichaud: it does require a gmail.com address
<allison> (it's a single signon, so your gmail account is your blog account)
<Tene> looks like I can sign up for blogger with my non-gmail google account.
<Tene> allison: see if you can send an invite to tene@allalone.org
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<allison> tene: I just have my gmail account forward to my main email account
<allison> tene: apparently yes
<Eevee> hm.  rakudo.org does not appear to be fed to planetsix.perl.org
* DietCoke tries to figure out what the difference is between SELF.get_integer() and VTABLE_get_integer(INTERP, SELF);
<DietCoke> I don't think I have the keys to planetsix, just planetparrot
<chromatic> DietCoke, I think they're the same; the methody-looking form rewrites to the macro form.
<NotFound> You came from another planet?
<DietCoke> just verified that, yah.
<DietCoke> I have no problem with Vaso;u
<DietCoke> Vasily's patch on 54474, then.
<allison> DietCode: see lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/MethodEmmitter.pm
<DietCoke> (but having multiple syntaxes is just confusing)
<allison> Emitter, that is
* Eevee subscribes to planetparrot
<Eevee> rss++
<Tene> DietCoke: could parrotblog be aggregated on planet.parrotcode.org?
<DietCoke> It could, sure. that might almost make sense. =-)
<jonathan> chromatic: I think the first form maybe does the call on real_self, but only if DYNSELF became SELF already, which I forget it happened yet.
<DietCoke> jonathan: it did.
<allison> DietCoke: it didn't used to be the same, but when DYNSELF became SELF, then only STATICSELF is odd and interesting
<DietCoke> ah.
<DietCoke> how confusing!
<allison> At the moment, there's not much need for the macro, but it can be used to hide magical inheritance from HLLs to low-level pmcs
<DietCoke> While I'm in here, should I remove chip's blog? leo's blog?
<allison> are they posting parrot stuff? or anything?
<jonathan> allison: I think at the moment, we're not fully using the new PDD17 model for inheritance, attributes and so on?
<allison> jonathan: correct, it's partially there, but not fully
<jonathan> We still instantiate the parent PMC and delegate at the mo...
<jonathan> OK.
<allison> for one thing, we haven't eliminated real_self yet
<jonathan> Right.
<jonathan> Is this on your queue, or is anyone free to take a look?
<allison> but, we are now generating the low_level attributes, so we're 5 steps closer than the last time we talked about it
<jonathan> After the current batch of conferences, my schedule is a bit lighter.
<allison> my queue is non-blocking :)
<allison> take a look, ask questions, do it if you get to it
<allison> (though, bytecode is probably a higher priority)
<DietCoke> parrotblog added to planetparrot. give it a few hours.
<Tene> NO I NEED IT NOW
<Tene> Maybe.
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<spinclad> (re flamebait): <flame> repetition is the soul of wit.  long established principle. </>
<jonathan> allison: Infinoid++ is taking a look at bytecode, though I may well join in helping out there too. :-)
<PerlJam> jonathan++
<pmichaud> spinclad: yes, I think I heard that somewhere.
<allison> I've seen that, Infinoid++,
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<dalek> r27686 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [core]:
<dalek> : * Remove the 'Super' PMC, resolving RT#53968.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27686
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<DietCoke> those auto_pmc tests should probably not have a list of all the pmcs in them.
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<chromatic> How far away is fail() support in Rakudo?
<cognominal> thie parentheses are are scary  cuz they are used in p5 style :(
<cognominal> > my $x = '0'; if $x ne $x { say 'not ok 1' } else { say 'ok 1' }
<cognominal> ok 1
<cognominal> > my $x = '0'; if ($x ne $x) { say 'not ok 1' } else { say 'ok 1' }
<cognominal> not ok 1
<cognominal> > 
<NotFound> Will be acceptable to rename const_cast to PARROT_const_cast?
<jonathan> chromatic: Do you know where fail is actually defined? Just went to check in the synopses to see exactly what it requires, and didn't find a definition...
<jonathan> S29 just says, "TODO: Research the exception handling system."
<jonathan> Ah, S04 seems to define it under exceptions
<pmichaud> doesn't it just throw an exception?
<moritz> not necessary
<jonathan> Not really, that's die
<jonathan> It may under use fatal
<moritz> onlw when the "fatal" pragma is active
<pmichaud> ah.
<moritz> if not, it returns an "interesting undef" value
<jonathan> Otherwise, it "registers" itself with $!
<moritz> which is like an unthrown exception
<jonathan> And returns undef
<pmichaud> cognominal: that's definitely a rakudo bug -- feel free to submit it as a bug report.
<cognominal> that's always the same bug in another guise
<pmichaud> $x ne $x   and ($x ne $x) should return the same.
<jonathan> Indeed.
<jonathan> I'll try and look at that tomorrw...that's nasty.
<pmichaud> I'm looking now.
<jonathan> Oh, cool.
<jonathan> I would, but my slides are still not sufficiently written.
<pmichaud> pmichaud@orange:~/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6$ ./parrot perl6.pbc
<pmichaud> my $x = '0'; if $x ne $x { say 'not ok 1' } else { say 'ok 1' }
<pmichaud> ok 1
<pmichaud> my $x = '0'; if ($x ne $x) { say 'not ok 1' } else { say 'ok 1' }
<pmichaud> ok 1
<pmichaud> so I'm not seeing the same bug.
<pmichaud> cognominal: perhaps you still have a local () patch applied?
<jonathan> cognominal: You haven't still got some local diffs, e.g. theunapplied....
<jonathan> pm beat me!
<cognominal> I check
<chromatic> NotFound, where are you looking at renaming the macro?
<NotFound> chromatic: include/parrot/parrot.h
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<NotFound> I was hoping that this change will solve a problem I have compiling with g++, but It doesn't
<chromatic> Hm, that *is* pretty global.  I was just going to ask about C++ problems with it.
<dalek> r27687 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pge]:
<dalek> : * <?foo> is now a zero-width match instead of a non-capturing subrule.
<dalek> : * This brings us back into closer compliance with S05.
<dalek> : * Resolves RT#53834.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27687
<cognominal> yes, that my stupid patch that is kiling me
<NotFound> Potantially any c++ program embedding parrot will have problems with that macro.
<NotFound> By the way, there is a 'new' identifier in dod.h
<dalek> r27688 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : * Forgot to update DEPRECATED in previous commit.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27688
<chromatic> I don't see it.
<chromatic> Oh, in some of the generational APIs.
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<NotFound> In parrot_gc_gms_wb
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<NotFound> And parrot_gc_gms_wb_key
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<chromatic> I'll fix those up in a minute; I'm editing POD right now.
<NotFound> char ** const strings;
<NotFound> g++ don't like this.
<dalek> r27689 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [docs] Minor edits to PCT Getting Started guide, prompted by the desire to fix
<dalek> : its indexing on the CPAN.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27689
<dalek> r27690 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [GC] Changed C<new> parameter to C<_new> in a couple of GMS functions to help
<dalek> : C++ compilation.  Reported by NotFound.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27690
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<NotFound> I have a strange problem compiling with g++ 4.2.3, several functions claims to have a nothrow () declaration that does not match his definition.
<NotFound> All of them have one parameter, attributed as nonnull.
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<dalek> r27691 | pmichaud++ | rakoo:
<dalek> : Create a branch for refactoring rakudo base classes and objects.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27691
<moritz> pmichaud++ # "rakoo" ;-)
<pmichaud> just registered rakoodo.com :-)
<moritz> ;)
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<Juerd> What's rakoodo, besides confusing?
<pmichaud> I'm just reserving the name is all.
<pmichaud> "rakoo" is simply my branch where I'm refactoring the oo components of rakudo.
<Juerd> Ah :)
<pmichaud> it'll disappear in a day or so.
<Juerd> Expensive to register a domain for just a day or so :D
<pmichaud> oh, I might use it in the future for something. :-)
<Juerd> It's interesting to see that you pick .com, whereas rakudo.org is not .com
<pmichaud> oh, I grabbed .org as well. :-)
<Juerd> Heh
<Juerd> You're thorough :)
<pmichaud> I've had experience with not grabbing domain names when they were available and regretting it later.
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<NotFound> Is there some way to disable jit capability?
<pmichaud> probably an options to configure.pl
<pmichaud> try Configure.pl --help
<NotFound> There is --jitcapable to enable it.
<Juerd> pmichaud: I have that same experience.
<Juerd> That's why I got juerd.com/net/org even though I don't currently use them.
<Juerd> Well, they're active but I don't use them in communication
<jonathan> pmichaud: It appears there will be hackathon after YAPC::EU over in Sweden, arrive Sunday, hack for few days (up to Wed) or whatever of it works for you, if you're interested.
<jonathan> Just got email about it.
<jonathan> I'd forward, but your mail server always rejects my emails. :-|
<pmichaud> jonathan: excellent, thanks.  I'll see if I can fold it into my travel plans.
<pmichaud> which server rejects them?  pobox.com?
<pmichaud> or gmail?
<purl> gmail is hotmail with less suck.  NOTE: It is NOT repeat NOT (repeat: not repeat not) mutt with less suck.  It's webmail, folks.  Brilliant, well-executed webmail, but still webmail. or Google-powered suck or the best webmail Masque has ever used.  n.b., this is like saying, "It's the best wood I've ever eaten!" or scary or cartmanmail or spawn of evil
<Juerd> gmail is also still webmail :)
<purl> okay, Juerd.
<jonathan> pmichaud: pobox
<pmichaud> hrm.
<Juerd> I had really expected gmail to get its own mail client.
<Infinoid> gmail has imap support
<Juerd> Infinoid: Oh, that's interesting.
<Eevee> Juerd: it has one, it's just written in html/js
<Infinoid> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=75725
<pmichaud> jonathan:  you could send to patrick.michaud@gmail.com, or I could whitelist you directly into pmichaud@pmichaud.com
<Juerd> Eevee: Where can I download it? :) (I meant offline client)
<pmichaud> (all of those addresses go to the same place.)
<Juerd> Infinoid: How do they push the advertisement through imap then?
<Eevee> Juerd: well, then you're in trouble  :P  but imap should be fine if that's what you want
<Eevee> although
<Eevee> I can see prism + gmail + google gears working in interesting ways
<Infinoid> Juerd: apparently, they don't. :)
<Juerd> Infinoid: Hm...
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<pmichaud> afk # swimming
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<confound> jonathan: why does pobox reject your email?
<jonathan> confound: Because my (in data center) mail server has numbers in it's hostname, so it thinks it's somebody's home machine that's been 0wned.
<jonathan> And I ain't got onto getting reverse DNS entry changed yet.
<NotFound> Finally, with some tricks and using --without-gmp I've been able to compile with g++ :)
<confound> jonathan: what's your mail server's hostname?
<NotFound> ...but fail a lot of tests.
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<chromatic> NotFound: fail as in crash, or just the wrong answer?
<NotFound> Failed to compile.
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<bacek_> morning.
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<jonathan> PCT++ # nearly have my toy language for Sweden presentation together
<chromatic> http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/jvmlangsummit/index.html
<jonathan> Slightly random that they have a picture of the great wall of China on that page...
<jonathan> chromatic: You thinking Perl 6 on JVM?
<jonathan> Or just checking out what tools others are using to build compilers?
<Juerd> jonathan++  # I'm reading the 17 May post on rakudo.org
<Juerd> jonathan: I really like how these articles don't just show what was done, but also teach Perl 6.
<jonathan> Juerd: That's somewhat deliberate. :-)
<Juerd> I suspected that :)
<chromatic> jonathan, Charlie Nutter suggested that he wanted other VM weenies to attend.
<jonathan> Aha, OK.
<jonathan> OK, sleep time...
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<pmichaud> Juerd: ping
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* DietCoke yawns
<japhb> I resemble that remark
<DietCoke> getting the ability to work from home is a double edged sword. :|
<japhb> YES
<DietCoke> on the plus side, I'm pretty sure this time is billable. =-)
<japhb> That's definitely nice ...
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<chromatic> japhb's contributor agreement arrived
<japhb> wheeee
<DietCoke> did we actually solict one? ;)
<japhb> DietCoke: at least two committers (maybe more?  don't know everyone's status) said I should apply for commitbit, so there you go
<chromatic> If he doesn't break the build or step on Tewk's changes or make big architectural changes without some form of review, +1 from me
<chromatic> You know, the usual.
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* DietCoke gives chromatic a diet cookie.
* japhb gives chromatic some single-origin dark chocolate
<DietCoke> you suck up.
<japhb> DietCoke: never hurts ...
<japhb> Is ordinary 'make test' still the right test variant to run prior to commits, as per docs/project/committer_guide.pod, or is that out of date?
<DietCoke> at least make coretest.
<DietCoke> (which is faster and doesn't run all the config steps)
<DietCoke> s/steps/tests/
<japhb> Is coretest a strict subset of test?
<DietCoke> b'leev so
<japhb> k
<DietCoke> there are some things that require 'test' to hit, but it's mainly if you mess with adding opcodes, pmcs, or config steps.
<DietCoke> IIRC.
<japhb> fair enough
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<japhb> Hmmm, coretest skips configure, examples, doc, manifest, developing, and JSON tests.
<japhb> Given it's 194 seconds already on this box and test is 319, both are approximately "take a stretch break", so not worth running just coretest for me I think.
<japhb> Speaking of DEVELOPING, shouldn't those two release numbers be bumped?  At least, that's how I'm reading the comments at the bottom of the file.
<DietCoke> DEVELOPING should be the number of the last released version, IIRC.
<DietCoke> hopefully c updated it.
<japhb> It shows two revs.  According to the notes, they are supposed to be the last release version, and the next-to-be-released version.  But right now, showing 0.6.1 and 0.6.2.
<japhb> ... unless I'm misreading the notes
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<DietCoke> yes. this release is 0.6.2
<pmichaud> just look at the log on the file and see when it was last updated :-)
<DietCoke> though you're right, those descriptions seem to be inaccurate.
<japhb> DietCoke: the reason I believe the descriptions instead of the release numbers above, is that DEVELOPING is deleted during tarball packaging ... so there's no point in having information in there that is out of date.
<japhb> ... Because someone using a release tarball (and thus perhaps interested in old history) will never see that file
<DietCoke> japhb: yes, but we're currently used to having it lagged by one.
<DietCoke> So we either need to change our expectations (fix the file) or yours (fix the descriptions.)
<DietCoke> But we should probably do one or the other. Feel free to open a ticket with your case. =-)
<japhb> I vote for fixing the file, because then it becomes useful ... developers then know when the next release will be.  :-)
<japhb> fair enough
<pmichaud> urg
<japhb> pmichaud: ?
<DietCoke> japhb: when the next release will be?
<pmichaud> ...is there no way to determine if a class has a method of a given name, either itself or via inheritance?
<DietCoke> (we don't know at release A what release B will be numbered.
<japhb> DietCoke: doesn't mean we can't put a placeholder in, and pick a date
<DietCoke> (the date's typically known)
<DietCoke> see: docs/project/rel*
<DietCoke> which also has the instructions for updating it which also probably need an update.
<japhb> RT sent
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<Alias> Juerd: Ping?
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<japhb> Anybody about that uses git-svn for parrot work?
* japhb is having to give himself a crash course because of the Debian SVK snafu
<dalek> r27692 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [p6object]:
<dalek> : * Turns out that when checking for a 'new' method, we have to
<dalek> :   check all of the mro classes.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27692
<ank> japhb: I started playing with it yesterday, looks very nice
<Alias> debian svk snafu?
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<chromatic_FEED_ME> Debian unstable includes Perl 5.10 but doesn't work with SVK or something.
<Alias> ah
<Alias> wait... in unstable
<Alias> oh wait, snafu
<Alias> I somehow read debacle :)
* bacek_ found bug Parrot_quicksort
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<bacek_> http://pastebin.com/d15ced157
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<bacek_> This implementation of List.sor using FPA.
<bacek_> With sample code and backtrace from GDB on crash.
<bacek_> List.sort
<dalek> r27693 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [p6object]:
<dalek> : * Allow p6object to create classes named via arrays
<dalek> :   (e.g., things like ['Foo';'Bar']).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27693
<dalek> r27694 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [p6object]:
<dalek> : * Convert PCT, PGE, and NQP to all use the new P6object.pbc library
<dalek> :   instead of Protoobject.pbc.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27694
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<dalek> r27695 | pmichaud++ | rakoo:
<dalek> : Remove rakoo branch to easily re-sync with trunk.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27695
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<dalek> r27696 | pmichaud++ | rakoo:
<dalek> : Re-create rakoo branch from fresh trunk, this branch will
<dalek> : be used to migrate rakudo to the P6object library.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27696
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<bacek_> pmichaud: ping
<pmichaud> bacek_: pong
<bacek_> what about FPA sort bug? Or it is my bug?..
<pmichaud> I haven't had a chance to look at it.
<bacek_> http://pastebin.com/d15ced157
<bacek_> pmichaud: ok.
<bacek_> I can wait :)
<pmichaud> there's no 'infix:lte'
<pmichaud> you probably mean 'infix:leg'
<bacek_> pmichaud: just a sec
<pmichaud> also, you may need   get_hll_global 'infix:leg'
<pmichaud> otherwise it'll look for 'infix:leg' in the current namespace ('List')
<bacek_> pmichaud: Ho!
<bacek_> pmichaud: you genius!
<bacek_> It works!
<bacek_> copy to
<bacek_> sort
<bacek_> copy from
<bacek_> done
<bacek_> 1 2 3 4 a b c d
* bacek_ dancing around table 
<cotto_home> automatic?
<purl> hmmm... automatic is extremely lame
<cotto_home> nopaste, automatic is http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIRCzbBB99E
<cotto_home> no automatic is http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIRCzbBB99E
<Juerd> pmichaud: pong
<pmichaud> Juerd: lot of apache2 processes running on feather -- a lot more than I would expect.
<pmichaud> it looks to me as though some of them never die
<pmichaud> not sure why yet -- haven't tracked that down.
<pmichaud> but since MaxSpareServers is set to a relatively low value -- we shouldn't see this many running.
<bacek_> my @a = ('a', 4, 'c', 2, 'b', 1, 'd', 3);
<bacek_> say ~@a;
<bacek_> @a.sort();
<bacek_> say ~@a;
<bacek_> my @b = sort { $^b <=> $^a }, @a;
<bacek_> say ~@b;
<bacek_> $ ../../parrot perl6.pbc sort.pl 
<bacek_> a 4 c 2 b 1 d 3
<bacek_> 1 2 3 4 a b c d
<bacek_> 4 3 2 1 d c a b
<bacek_> Ho. pmichaud is my hero
<pmichaud> bacek_: (nopaste is my hero :-)
<bacek_> pmichaud: ok-ok :)
<pmichaud> Juerd: if you could temp grant me sudo privileges, I might be able to trck down the apache2 processes a bit further
* bacek_ just little overexcited :)
<pmichaud> bacek++
<bacek_> pmichaud: this FPA based sort
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<Juerd> pmichaud: You now have sudo access
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<Juerd> pmichaud: And thanks
<pmichaud> sure.  I'm going to make a minor change to apache2.conf (to enable /server-status to my workstation) and reload it and see what's going on.
<pmichaud> I'll make backups of any files I change.
<pmichaud> (but that's the only one I expect to change w/o checking with you first)
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<pmichaud> okay, done.  I'll keep an eye on apache2 throughout tomorrow and let you know if I find anything.
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