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<dalek> r28043 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [IMCC] Made IMCC more rentrant.  When compiling code with IMCC from within a
<dalek> : PIR program, it was possible to switch the constant table for the currently
<dalek> : executing parent context to an empty constant table created for the context of
<dalek> : the code being compiled.  This does bad things from within continuations.
<dalek> : The fix is to save the parent context *before* potentially overwriting its data.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28043
<dalek> r28044 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [src] Tided some code, while I was debugging them.  No behavioral changes.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28044
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<dalek> r28045 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tutorial] add episodes 5 to 9 to languages/squaak/doc directory
<dalek> : Manifest is updated.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28045
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<dalek> r28046 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tutorial] fix a missing =head2.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28046
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<bacek> <bacek> rakudo: my $a = 1 + undef; say $a; say $a.WHAT;
<bacek> <exp_evalbot> rakudo r28046 OUTPUT[1?Failure?]
<bacek> pmichaud, I found why List.map failing with Failure.
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<nopaste> "bacek" at 202.7.166.169 pasted "Fix src/pmc/integer.pmc +/- ops with undef (pmichaud/particle/chromatic to review)." (20 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13150
<bacek> anyone alive here?
* moritz drops dead
* bacek empty AK-47 to moritz. Just to be sure...
<moritz> ouch, that hurt! I can't even begin to imagine how much a full AK-47 would hurt ;)
<bacek> moritz, empty is about few kilogramms. Full is little bit more :)
<moritz> in Soviet Russia Kalachnikov empties *you*
<bacek> moritz, no. Its usually fills you with some small metal things :)
<moritz> bacek: and empties your guts in the progress
<bacek> moritz, probably :)
<jonathan> Seems I picked an interesting time, to appear on #parrot...
<moritz> ;-)
<bacek> hi jonathan :)
<cognominal> make: *** No rule to make target `src/glut_callbacks.o', needed by `runtime/parrot/dynext/libglutcb.bundle'.  Stop  
<cognominal> do I need a new version of the glut library?
<bacek> cognominal, make realclean; Configure.pl; make
<cognominal> I ded
<cognominal> I did!
<bacek> can anyone test S29-list/map.t via 'make localtest'?
<bacek> cognominal, works for me...
<davidfetter> anybody have an example of using parrot to replace lexx/yacc ?
<moritz> bacek: All tests successful, 27 subtests skipped.
<bacek> moritz, hmm...
<davidfetter> well, the relevant parts of parrot, anyhow
<moritz> bacek: fudged, of course
<bacek> davidfetter, languages/squaak/src/parser/
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* davidfetter looks at this
<bacek> moritz, yeek... I didn't expect it...
<bacek> moritz, is it clean checkout of parrot?
<moritz> bacek: actually map.t is not in spectest_regression.data because it had unclear tests (that I cleaned in the mean time)
<moritz> bacek: no, slight modifications
% Whiteknight has joined #parrot
<moritz> the runcore=gcdebug path, mostly
<bacek> moritz, can you 'say (1+undef)+undef' result?
<cognominal> I suspect this patch :  http://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=55074
<moritz> bacek: same as evalbot
<davidfetter> bacek, um, that's not quite what i had in mind. i'm thinking of a walk-through where somebody replaces lexx/yacc with parrot in an existing code base
<dalek> r28047 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] updating to trunk r28046
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28047
<cognominal> does not seem so dangerous a patch :(
<bacek> bacek@icebolt:~/src/parrot/languages/perl6$ ../../parrot perl6.pbc 
<bacek> > say (1+undef)+undef
<bacek> 1
<bacek> I don't understand why S29-list/map.t passes without my patch...
<moritz> bacek: which specific test are you worrying about?
<bacek> davidfetter, ouch... I don't think that someone did it
<bacek> moritz, n-ary functions
<moritz> bacek: they are fudged
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<bacek> moritz, i'mm stupid... I forgot to commit unfuged version...
<bacek> >  say  ~(1,2).map({ $^a+$^b+$^c+$^d+$^e })
<bacek> 3
<bacek> ok. Look's like this is right patch for integer.pmc
<bacek> summon jonathan 
* jonathan appears
<bacek> http://nopaste.snit.ch/13150 this is another small patch for src/pmc/integer.pmc
<bacek> It fix (1+undef)+undef problem in parrot
<jonathan> Hmm
<jonathan> Basically it just makes the return type that of the LHS of the operator rather than the RHS.
<bacek> LHS is always Int.
<bacek> And it consistent with all other places in this file :)
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<bacek> ouch...
<bacek> mmd--
<bacek> I hate it...
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<bacek> jonathan, ok... mmd is weird
<bacek> this patch will fix part of the problem anyway.
<bacek> another part is properly implement 'undef.pmc' with redirecting 'undef of PMC' to 'PMC op undef'
* bacek cast resurrect on jonathan
<Whiteknight> watch out! zombie jonathan will eat your brains!
<pmichaud> pong
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<bacek> pmichaud, I found why List.map doesn't work with Failure.
<bacek> http://nopaste.snit.ch/13150
<bacek> Actually other VTABLE_methods use patch's approach
<pmichaud> interesting.  looking.
<bacek> and question is: is it good idea to implement undef + 1 in src/pmc/undef as redirecting it to 1 + undef
<pmichaud> bacek:  can't do that for subtraction, though.
<pmichaud> (so, no)
<bacek> pmichaud, yes of  cause. But for commutative methods it will work :)
<pmichaud> well, we need to find a fix for all of them :-)
<pmichaud> and I'd rather not have some do it one way and others do it another
<pmichaud> I think I'm going to fix it all using a higher mmd anyway
<bacek> pmichaud, pugs says that 'undef - 1' is -1.
<moritz> that's right, plus ideally a warning
<bacek> Looks like pugs morph undef to RHS type
<bacek> may be this is 'way to go'
* bacek still trying to build bugs...
<pmichaud> no, because   undef - "123"   shouldn't morph to a string.
<pmichaud> I have the fix in mind -- just haven't had a chance to write it.  
<pmichaud> just a sec, I'll fix it now.
<bacek> pmichaud, ok
<pmichaud> (need to svn up, rebuild, etc first)
<pmichaud> but I think the real solution is to have infix:+ (_,_)  cast its values into num registers, then do the addition.
<pmichaud> and for an optimization we can have   infix:+ (Int,Int)   do an integer addition
<pmichaud> and then we don't have to deal with Parrot's MMD at all.
<bacek> pmichaud, is it good???
<pmichaud> (er, Parrot's opcode MMD)
<bacek> pmichaud, anyway, it's next step. My patch just fix some inconsistency.
<moritz> bacek: it's the only generic solution
<moritz> bacek: because infix:+ should work for all things that can be used in numeric context
<moritz> bacek: even user defined classes
<bacek> moritz, why it should be on 'language level' not 'VM level'?
<pmichaud> one thing I haven't figured out in Parrot's opcode MMD is how one adds new MMD combinations to an opcode
<pmichaud> for example, if I want to have a special version of 'add'  for   types Foo and Bar, how do I do that?
<moritz> bacek: because if you have N types that can be used in numeric context, you'll have to add O(N²) inifix:+ multis
<pmichaud> although I guess it's done using a vtable override of the 'add' opcode
<pmichaud> sorry, vtable override of the add vtable method
<pmichaud> anyway
<bacek> pmichaud, infix:+(Foo,Bar) :)
<bacek> I can't find commutative handling in MMD too...
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<pmichaud> bacek:   infix+(Foo,Bar)  would be a multi sub, not another MMD entry in Parrot's opcode table
<pmichaud> I mean the case where I have
<pmichaud>     $P0 = new 'Foo'
<pmichaud>     $P1 = new 'Bar'
<pmichaud>     n_add $P2, $P0, $P1
<bacek> pmichaud, hmm... 
<pmichaud> as I said, I think it would need to be a vtable method on Foo
<pmichaud> anyway, I'll go ahead and fix it for rakudo
<pmichaud> making spectest_regression
<pmichaud> Hash needs get_number, adding
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<Whiteknight> true or false: "Parrot has six basic stacks, each for a different purpose: The control stack, the pad stack, and the four register backing stacks"?
<pmichaud> false
<pmichaud> we no longer have register backing stacks, I don't think
<Whiteknight> I already removed "user stack" from the list
<Whiteknight> okay
<pmichaud> and i'm not sure we have a pad stack, either.
<Whiteknight> I'm working on /docs/book, and a lot of stuff in here is about the stacks and needs to get deleted.
<Whiteknight> And I know the number of stacks has been reduced, but I dont know the full extent of the reduction
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<Whiteknight> pmichaud, would you know who I could ask about the existence of the pad stack?
<Whiteknight> or, where I could find the information myself?
<pmichaud> chromatic or allison are the best bets
<pmichaud> you might also try the mailing list, or perhaps at #parrotsketch later today
<Whiteknight> okay, thanks!
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<dalek> r28048 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [core]:
<dalek> : * Add get_number vtable method to Hash PMC.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28048
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<Whiteknight> well, the opcodes for new_pad, push_pad and pop_pad are all missing from ops.num. That's not a good sign in favor of existence
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<Whiteknight> even if it does exist, if you can't manipulate it directly, there's no sense talking about it in the book
<dalek> r28049 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [perl6]:
<dalek> : * Fix a number of operators to do proper casting.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28049
<pmichaud> bacek:  okay r28049 should do what you want.
<bacek> pmichaud, rebuilding...
<bacek> pmichaud, (while building parrot) http://nopaste.snit.ch/13149
<pmichaud> the multis don't look right
<bacek> yes.
<bacek> I think we should drop all :multi(_,List)
<bacek> because in sub(foo, 1, (1..5)) List is not generated anymore AFAIK
<pmichaud> shouldn't it be  :multi(Sub)   ?
<bacek> pmichaud, probably. 
<bacek> no. definitely :)
<bacek> pmichaud, (last patch) it woks!
<bacek> pmichaud++
<pmichaud> how does pugs report an error in reduce if given a sub with arity < 2 ?
<moritz> it calls Code.arity?
<bacek> pmichaud, yes. 
<bacek> sting is copy-pasted from evalbot 
<nopaste> "bacek" at 202.7.166.166 pasted "replacing :multi subs with :multi(Sub)" (49 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13151
* bacek running spectest_regression for  http://nopaste.snit.ch/13151
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<Zaba_> did perl5's $0 go in perl6? what is in its place?
<pmichaud> (reduce)  what if the argument is a multisub?
<moritz> Zaba_: probalby $*PROGRAM_NAME or some such
<dalek> r28050 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [book] Updated chapter 5 by removing references to "user stack" and "pad stack", and other updates/additions.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28050
<bacek> pmichaud, Result: PASS with http://nopaste.snit.ch/13151. You are totally right
<Zaba_> aha
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<pmichaud> also, fwiw, I'd like to have parameter names in the implementation match the parameter names in the spec.  :-)
<bacek> pmichaud, ok :)
<bacek> btw, may be we should made 2 subs: :multi(Sub) and :multi(Sub, List) for 'premature optimisation' 
<pmichaud> nah, don't do the premature optimization
<pmichaud> there's little point.
<pmichaud> :multi(Sub) should be sufficient.
<bacek> ok :)
<bacek> S29?
<purl> S29 is http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Spec/Functions.pod
<jonathan> OK, I'm back
<jonathan> Had Slovak lesson.
<pmichaud> wb, jonathan
<nopaste> "bacek" at 202.7.166.166 pasted "replacing :multi subs with :multi(Sub) once again (for pmichaud)" (94 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13152
<pmichaud> it's not necessary to create a separate list
<pmichaud> simply use   values.'map'(expression)
<jonathan> pmichaud: Was it my parameter handling patch that caused issues?
<pmichaud> jonathan: both patches caused issues
<pmichaud> I was going to fix them yesterday but got sidetracked onto other items
<pmichaud> well, I should rephrase that
<pmichaud> getting Perl6Scalar to accept  infix:= is going to be tricky, because find_method on Perl6Scalar is always using find_method of the value
<jonathan> I know the gc one caused issues...
<pmichaud> and yes, the gc one caused issues too :-)
<jonathan> Ah, yes. The MMD stuff gets...nasty...there. :-(
<jonathan> Oh, wait, it's not about MMD
<jonathan> Hmm, but yes, you're right.
<pmichaud> the params patch hard-coded Perl6Scalar instead of using $?PERL6SCALAR
<pmichaud> so switching $?PERL6SCALAR at the top didn't quite work
<pmichaud> but I really want to refactor parameter handling anyway
<jonathan> ok
<pmichaud> you were just a day or so ahead of me
<jonathan> ok
<pmichaud> I'm also planning to get rid of a lot of the inline PIR surrounding placeholder params, since that's not needed any more
<pmichaud> and try to remove some of our flag variables.
<bacek> sleep time
<bacek> g'night everyone
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<moritz> maybe we should introduce a "committest" that runs rakudo's test, spectest_regression and parrot's codetest
<particle> i think that should be called 'test' so it's the default
<particle> -Odevelopment
* jonathan wouldn't dislike what particle suggests.
<particle> then we have targets like spectest, fulltest, etc
<moritz> I think it's useless to run the code tests when you do a 'make languages_smoke'
<particle> languages_smoke should run 'smoketest' then
<particle> every language should define smoketest, and most will point to test
<particle> smoketest : test
<moritz> good point
<purl> Thanks, moritz, I'm glad you agree with me.
<moritz> we just need to make sure that we don't fail when sombody doesn't have svn installed
<particle> or that we fail gracefully
<NotFound> You can add make installsvn X-)
<moritz> NotFound: naughty boy
* moritz is surprised that purl doesn't have a clever comment on that one ;)
<davidfetter> open the pod bay doors, purl 
<purl> I'm sorry, davidfetter, I'm afraid I can't do that.  I still have the utmost confidence in the mission.
* NotFound is considering the possibility of creating a text adventure game by feeding purl with selected texts.
<moritz> NotFound: purl *is* the text adventure
<NotFound> I loose.
<davidfetter> itym lose
<pmichaud> purl, the mission?
<purl> well, the mission is probably pretty inexpensive.
<pmichaud> no, purl, the mission is to complete Perl 6.  :-)
<purl> okay, pmichaud.
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<Whiteknight> the mission?
<purl> the mission is probably to complete Perl 6.  :-)
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<Whiteknight> excellent use of the qualifier "probably"
<pmichaud> probably, purl?  Are you sure you're unsure?  Are you certain it's not certain?  
* pmichaud picks on the bot.
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<japhb> cognominal: I have not had time to read the backlog (and I'm about to step out), but when I get back I can take a look at your OpenGL build problems.  In the mean time, can you email me a tarball of your OpenGL/GLUT header files?  (I'm surprised you're having problems on Mac OS, I thought I nailed these to the ground.)
<pmichaud> moritz: is #55164 still an issue for you-- i.e., does t/spec/S29-array/push.rakudo still segfault?
<moritz> pmichaud: checking...
<purl> hmmm... checking is not the hard part here. ;-)
<cognominal> japhb : your email address?
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<moritz> pmichaud: it doesn't segfault, I'll now check the reduced example with --runcore=gcdebug
<cotto_home> japhb?
<purl> somebody said japhb was Geoffrey Broadwell, mailto:geoff@broadwell.org
<moritz> pmichaud: no segfault, but still errors with --runcore=gcdebug
<pmichaud> interesting.  
<pmichaud> okay, thanks, that's what I needed to know.  I'll try it on my box.
<NotFound> #55710 has been solved?
<NotFound> I mean, #55170
<pmichaud> I don't know if it's been solved or not
<NotFound> I'v tested now with a c++ build, and it works.
<NotFound> Rebuliding with c.
<NotFound> Interesting, it segfaults in the c build but works in the c++ build.
<NotFound> Both builds after a realclean, in r28050
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<cotto_home> NotFound, where does the c build for 28050 explode for you?
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<cotto_home> nm
<NotFound> cotto_home: make perl6, when executing the hello.
<NotFound> Buliding with --optimize, as #55170 explains.
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<avar> 1/w 22
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<moritz> purl: ps?
<purl> ps is postscript or process status
<moritz> purl: #ps?
<purl> somebody said #ps was where I can say "okay, these issues are really troubling/annoying/blocking" or #parrotsketch, where committers can talk and bystanders can listen
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<Tene> Oh, #ps time and coke isn't around.
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<particle> isn't parrotsketch in an hour?
<particle> 1830utc
<particle> currently 1738
<moritz> aye
<Tene> Gah, timezones.
<moritz> I hoped that purl would tell me the time
<moritz> purl, #ps is also at 1830 UTC
<purl> okay, moritz.
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<chromatic> Is there a SoC meeting?
<particle> no, parrot soc students report during parrotsketch
<Tene> I thought I was on central time again.
<chromatic> So there's no special SoC meeting?
<moritz> chromatic: and Auzon reports on #perl6-soc in irc.freenode.net
<particle> there's a meeting for the perl 6 soc project, tomorrow at 1930utc
<Auzon> but that's on Wednesday.
<Tene> " Wednesday 19:30 UTC weekly meetings" -- from #perl6-soc on freenode
<particle> auzon misreported in his blog a week or so aga
<particle> *ago
<Auzon> I did?
<particle> you misreported something...
* moritz didn't notice
<particle> perhaps it's that you said it's before the weekly parrot meeting
<moritz> let's throw a few stones, just to be sure ;)
<particle> that's incorrect, it's 30m before the weekly perl 6 design meeting conference call
<Auzon> OK, I'll change that.
<chromatic> Okay, that sounds familiar.
<particle> so i'd like to keep that meeting to 30m ;)
<moritz> particle: I think it will usually be shorter, it was just the first time that we had so much to say
<particle> moritz: agreed
<particle> moritz: do you log #parrotsketch?
<moritz> particle: no. Should I?
<particle> would you mind? it'd be nice in case tweety goes down
<particle> and your log interface is much nicer
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<moritz> particle: thanks ;-) it logs now
<particle> moritz++
<Auzon> OK, I fixed my blag. Sorry about the confusion.
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<pmichaud> purl: ps?
<purl> it has been said that ps is postscript or process status
<pmichaud> purl: parrotsketch?
<purl> rumour has it parrotsketch is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
<pmichaud> ps is also see "parrotsketch"
<purl> okay, pmichaud.
<pmichaud> no, #ps is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
<purl> okay, pmichaud.
* pmichaud begins preparing his #ps report
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<NotFound> #55170 is the same problem as #55000, at least in my system.
<chromatic> Does the patch for #55000 fix it for you?
<NotFound> chromatic: I tested a variant of that patch, that checks both calls to really_destroy, and fix both tickets.
<chromatic> Sounds good to me.
<NotFound> I've posted the patch in #55170.
<chromatic> Let's see how dirty my tree is.
<chromatic> Yep, it's a fix.
<chromatic> Wow, with an optimized build, that Rakudo benchmark builds four times faster than it did when I started optimizing it.
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<chromatic> And the file is three times larger.
<NotFound> A lot of inlining, maybe.
<chromatic> Not too much... dropping PARROT_ASSERT helps a little and optimizing away useless NULL checks.
<scrottie> pmichaud, wake up.
<chromatic> As I understand it, GCC is terrible about cross .o inlining and optimization.
<chromatic> I'd like to see how clang handles this at some point.
<Whiteknight> chromatic, do we still have a pad stack?
<NotFound> Ah, sorry, I think you talked about the library file size.
<Whiteknight> i was under the impression that the pad stack is caput
<chromatic> I meant the size of the input file, not the .o file... so the build process takes three times as much work to process the file.
<dalek> r28051 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src] When destroying an interpreter, only destroy its exceptions if there are
<dalek> : any present.  Fixes RT #55000 and RT #55170 (NotFound, Vasily Chekalkin, and
<dalek> : Andrew Whitworth).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28051
<pmichaud> scrottie: pong
<chromatic> Whiteknight, if you mean the Stack_Chunk_t thing that pmichaud and I talked about a few times, it's gone in the pdd25cx branch now.
<pmichaud> whiteknight means whatever the book mean by "pad stack"
<pmichaud> I assumed the pad stack was the lexical pad stack
<Whiteknight> yeah, lexical pad stack. The "push_pad" and "pop_pad
<Whiteknight> " instructions are all gone
<scrottie> pmichaud:  yo.  not sure if you replied to my email or if you got it.  a lot of people block me for lack of forward and reverse DNS matching.
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<pmichaud> either pobox or gmail may have blocked it.
<scrottie> pmichaud:  you doing YAPC this year?
<pmichaud> yes.
<scrottie> ahh, excellent.  arriving the night before?
<pmichaud> arriving saturday before
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<pmichaud> (parrot hackathon)
<scrottie> i get in sunday eve.  would you mind just throwing Larry in your suitcase and then I'll try to get in touch?  what are your Sunday eve plans?
<pmichaud> I'm thinking of attending the pre-conference dinner
<pmichaud> other than that, I have no plans at present.
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* scrottie checks his flight info again
<pmichaud> I was a little worried about transporting Larry because I'm only doing carryon (no real "suitcase").  But I think I've found a spot for it.
<pmichaud> and I have it pretty well protected at the moment :-)
<scrottie> oh.  right.  the fascists decided to come up with more clever ways to make security screening take forever so that people miss their flights so they can overbook een more
<scrottie> haven't had my coffee yet... just saw you were only 15 min idle and tried to sieze the chance... so I'm a bit dopey...
<pmichaud> no prob :-)
<pmichaud> can I get my karma back?  ;-)
<chromatic> That would assume competence on the part of both parties in the conspiracy, which when applied to both airlines and the TSA stretches credulity.
<pmichaud> yes, I'm not sure what American Airlines was thinking when they started their "pay to check any bags" bit.  Fortunately I'm flying Southwest :-)
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<NotFound> About library size: 16M in normal build, 4.3M with --optimize
<jonathan> Pay to check any bags is done by various European budget airlines, but I'd never really have considered AA a budget airline...
<pmichaud> AA just announced the new policy a week or so ago
<pmichaud> $15 for first bag, $25 for additional bag, each way
<chromatic> Wow.  That's a lot of debugging symbols.
<moritz> airlines mostly suck
<pmichaud> (for tickets booked after June 15)
<scrottie> chromatic:  I'm assuming fascism and working backwards from that assumption.
<pmichaud> scrottie: anyway, I'll have Larry with me at the conference.
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<chromatic> That's fine.  Just remember competent fascism (such as Mussolini or Franco) implies timely public transportation systems.
<particle> oh, crap, gotta type up my report
<chromatic> #ps time
<scrottie> pmichaud:  alrighty, I get in 2:23.  sorry to be itchy about getting him back... i have plans for him that involve having time before the con.  but I did intend for him to travel and I'm glad you had him.
<pmichaud> scrottie: no problem -- sorry we didn't get together before now to take care of it.  had been meaning to do so but it kept slipping down my list of 'to-do'
<scrottie> no, this is awesome.  I'd have coordinated earlier but I didn't have this particular plan in effect before ;)
<NotFound> chromatic: looks like you never travelled in the Spain of Franco.
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<chromatic> He predated me by a bit.
<scrottie> pmichaud++ # not being an ide-butt
<scrottie> idle
<particle> scrottie-- # misplleling karma comments
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<particle> scrottie++ # keeping karma in balance
<scrottie> =P
<scrottie> pmichaud:  by the way, Richard Dice had Larry the previous year, and when he (Larry) came back, he was all grubby.  Apparently people like to touch Larry.
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<pmichaud> hasn't been touched a lot here.  Mostly been a decoration on my desk :-)
<TimToady> .oO(whew!)
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<chromatic> Hmm, looks like get_free_buffer is a candidate for GC-related optimization.
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<pmichaud> maybe we should put a parrot hackathon announcement on parrotblog ?
<particle> good idea!
<purl> particle: Good Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the park. Bad Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the bank.
<particle> wish i remembered my rakudo.org password
<pmichaud> there's not a way to recover passwords?
<chromatic> It's just a Blogger password, right?
<particle> not obvious, since i didn't set up the account, i don't have the magic phrase
<particle> gotta poke andy
<chromatic> Oh no, I'm thinking of parrotblog.org
<pmichaud> rakudo.org is movable type
<particle> too many domains
<particle> i'm confuddled and befused
<particle> ...and i work here!
<pmichaud> it's interesting that on this project we get to use just about every blogging application there is.
<pmichaud> (at least the major ones.)
<Whiteknight> chromatic, get_free_buffer seems pretty bare-bones already. how could it be optimized?
<pmichaud> having so many different blogging systems seems.... suboptimal.
<moritz> pmichaud: just write THE ONE blogging system ;)
<pmichaud> moritz: I did -- in fact, I'm now using it to post to the others.  :-P
<pmichaud> (I write my articles in my wiki, then I have a filter that translates them into suitable formats for each blog application.)
<moritz> pmichaud: can it stand on its own? (I mean as "real" blog)
<pmichaud> well, it needs a few more features to be a "real" blog, although lots of people use it for that already
<pmichaud> but yes, my wiki app definitely stands on its own.
<japhb> msg DietCoke I responded to your bug RT #55238.  It's one of those "should not be possible" things.
<purl> Message for dietcoke stored.
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<japhb> cognominal: I have not received email from you yet, nor have I had a chance to read backlog (damn $real_life).  I will check back after lunch and try to help you then.
* scrottie enjoyed his visit to #parrot very much (thank you!) but he's going to slink off back to that other chan now.
<scrottie> cheers!
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<chromatic> Whiteknight, before I read the code I thought it might be pulling from a bufferlike pool.
<Whiteknight> isn't it? it is calling pool->get_free_object()
<chromatic> One of the sized bufferlike pools.
<chromatic> Not a string header pool.
<Whiteknight> oh, okay
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<cognominal>  japhb, I updated the ticket
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<smash> hello everyone
<moritz> hi smash ;)
<japhb> cognominal, OK, I'm back
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<japhb> cognominal: what ticket did you update?
<japhb> Man, I just cannot manage to be here at the same time as him ...
<NotFound> Someone can tell what Parrot_exec_rel_addr and Parrot_exec_rel_count are used for? I've deleted all his usages and test passed, make hello works and make perl6 works.
<japhb> cognominal: Oh, I see, 55228.
<chromatic> NotFound, make testj
<NotFound> Doing...
<purl> rumour has it doing is better than talking
<NotFound> PASS
<NotFound> TODO passed: 8
<chromatic> Hm, and you're on a platform with working JIT?
<NotFound> Ubuntu 8.04 i386
<chromatic> Okay, let's get someone on Mac OS X 10.4 on PPC to try the patch with make testj, and I'm happy.
<NotFound> Those variables are only in 386 jit files.
<NotFound> Maybe we must test in win 386
<chromatic> Oh yeah.  I keep forgetting.
<dalek> r28052 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [config] Resolved an undefined value warning when building Parrot without exec
<dalek> : core (reported by Will Coleda in RT #55244).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28052
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<particle> meeting &
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<mj41> Hi, probaly today TapTinder can help a bit - http://tt.perl6.cz/
* japhb is having an extremely interrupt-driven day
<japhb> Hmmm, can make depend on a success or failure exit code from a script, rather than on the existence and timestamp of a file?
<chromatic> Doubt it.
<particle> wrap the script in another that generates a file upon successful exit of the inner script
<particle> really gone &
<japhb> particle: yep, I was thinking that's what I'd have to do.
<chromatic> Although if you had a rule that just ran the script and relied on its exit code....
<dalek> r28053 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [docs] Update list of upcoming release managers based on RSVPs.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28053
<japhb> Hmmmm.  Can the timestamp of a file be set arbitrarily in a cross-platform way?
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<chromatic> You probably don't want to get into that.
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* japhb wishes make had a programmatic API, for about the hundredth time
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<smash> pmichaud: i'm getting a bit confused browsing svn, in PCT, the T stands for Tools or Toolkit in nowadays ?
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<NotFound> Patch sended to #54602 with the cleaning of the exec_rel_addr things.
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<spinclad> smash: Toolkit as i recall, but my #parrot logs gives for both
<spinclad> s/gives/give hits/
<smash> hehe
<spinclad> pct?
<purl> pct is probably a good solution, but heavyweight or the Parrot Compiler Toolkit
<smash> hmm, how updated are you purl ?
<spinclad> 2008-03-31: <@pmichaud> At the conference I'm wanting to do 2 or 3 talks regarding Rakudo (the Parrot implementation of Perl 6) and the new Parrot Compiler Toolkit. ...
<smash> ok, i guess that settles it 
<smash> thks spinclad 
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<cotto_work> no purl, pct is the Parrot Compiler Toolkit
<purl> okay, cotto_work.
<cotto_work> pct?
<purl> rumour has it pct is the Parrot Compiler Toolkit
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<japhb> Anyone around who can discuss the current state and future direction of the config/build processes in Parrot?
<Limbic_Region> well at one point, the plan was not to use perl 5 - but the build/config is extremely dependent on perl 5 ATM
<chromatic> We'll likely stick with Perl 5 for Parrot 1.0.
<Limbic_Region> purl nopaste
<purl> nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl
<nopaste> "Limbic_Region" at 68.49.236.220 pasted "Parrot fails to finish building on Win32/MinGW due to PGE" (997 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13154
<Limbic_Region> purl msg pmichaud parrot fails to finish building on Win32/MinGW due to pge - see http://nopaste.snit.ch/13154
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<Limbic_Region> grrr
<chromatic> boticide
<Limbic_Region> yep
<smash> hahahah
<smash> Limbic_Region: you bad person you  :-)
<smash> making poor bot crash !!
<PerlJam> Limbic_Region: If someone would volunteer to create a build/config system from miniparrot, that would be nice  ;-)
<chromatic> Yeah, but once you have miniparrot, you have most of libparrot built.
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<Limbic_Region> PerlJam - as chromatic said, the trouble is getting there.  IMO, the real trouble is portability
<chromatic> Portability isn't that awful.
<Limbic_Region> no, it is a great thing really
<chromatic> Most of what configure needs to do is compile and run some C programs and fill in some templates.
<PerlJam> it would be interesting if we could elide the "compile some C programs" step in lieu of a table lookup of some sort.
<Limbic_Region> so here is my proposed solution - write a configure.c - step 1.  compile configure.c  step 2, run the resulting configure.exe  step 3 - run make :-)
<chromatic> A table lookup?
<Limbic_Region> oh, yeah - in addition to the PGE build failure on Win32/MinGW - the rakudo spectest suite seems to hang in an infinite loop on Win32/Cygwin
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<Limbic_Region> t/spec/S29-conversions/ord_and_chr..................  # ran for 4 hours the other night
<PerlJam> chromatic: as part of the config step.  But I guess we need to do that anyway to get parro. Never mind me; I'm a little slow this evening
<Limbic_Region> should I submit a ticket for that - or is mentioning it here sufficient?
<PerlJam> lack of sleep and sick kids spreading their disease is enough to make  anyone slightly crazy :)
<chromatic> Someone should invent an antiseptic toddler.
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<japhb> sorry all, got pulled away myself.
<japhb> I was thinking at a higher level than implementation ...
<Infinoid> if you think at a high enough level, you stop thinking altogether :)
<japhb> What do we want configure to do?  Right now, it conflates several concepts: auto-detection for features, platform details detection, user overrides, generation of a number of files, etc. ...
<japhb> We certainly need *something* to do each of these steps, but is configure the right place for all of them?  (My biased answer: no)
<japhb> I was honestly surprised that configure generated *anything* other than a file listing the detected and overridden settings.
<PerlJam> Thsi sounds like it would have made a good google SoC  :)
<japhb> I created config::gen::opengl and config::gen::call_list because they needed to fit into the current config framework, but it's always struck me as wrong.
<japhb> PerlJam: Too bad I can't even remotely afford to live on SoC wages.  Plus I'm not a student.  ;-)
<smash> cya all tomorrow
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<PerlJam> At the very least it sounds like something that someone should apply to TPF for a grant for.
<PerlJam> (assuming someone has an idea how it should work)
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<japhb> Too bad we can't do retroactive TPF grants:  "OK, I just did Feature X.  It took me 43 hours.  I'm applying for a grant for the Feature X results, so that I can afford to do that again with Feature Y."
<PerlJam> japhb: just do the work but don't release  it until after you've gotten the grant  ;>
<japhb> World's most detailed grant application.  :-)
<japhb> "I know exactly how this would have to work ...."
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<japhb> Anyway, re: config and build system ...
<PerlJam> japhb: anyway .. just do the work  :)
<japhb> PerlJam: If I keep getting bug reports from people who haven't run 'make realclean', I just might.  It's frustrating to my work get spurious bug reports because the whole procedure doesn't DWIM for most people.
<japhb> Wow, that was mangled grammar.
<japhb> OK, what is the DWIM thing?  Why are people so adverse to 'make realclean'
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<japhb> ?
<PerlJam> perhaps it's just because it's  an extra step to have to remember.
<japhb> From other projects that people are on, how are the makefiles generated?  Is it expected that Configure does this?
<PerlJam> 'make fromscratch' that did make realclean; perl Configure.pl && make  # one step, easy to remember  :-)
<japhb> PerlJam: that assumes that we have a 'local prefs' file that tells Configure.pl about it's overrides, so that when it is rerun there, it produces a matching config to what was done by hand
<japhb> ... which I was thinking made sense anyway.
<japhb> perl Configure.pl <options> should really just write <options> to the prefs file (or a temp one, whatever) and then run normally
<japhb> Can a makefile have a dynamic dependency?  'foo.bar: <script that determines foo.bar's real dependencies>'?
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<cotto_work> why isn't languages/perl6/README called README.pod?
<japhb> <snappy comeback>
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<japhb> Seriously, I don't see why it wouldn't be that way, aside from making sure any links to it are fixed.
<dalek> r28054 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] adding a fourth GC pointer to an initialization routine.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28054
<cotto_work> I'll put it on my todo list for after I get my commit bit
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<japhb> damn fat fingers
<japhb> OK, does this sound reasonable for the "configure happy place":
<japhb> 1. User puts configure overrides in 'configure.prefs'
<japhb> 2. Configure converts configure.prefs and autodetected values into 'build.prefs' and 'Makefile'
<japhb> 3. At the bottom of the Makefile dependency tree are steps that generate everything Configure.pl currently generates now, using 'build.prefs' as input
<japhb> 4. In the Makefile, build.prefs and Makefile depend on configure.prefs and Configure.pl; if they are out of date, they are regenerated and $MAKE is restarted
<japhb> ?
<japhb> This means that when a user starts from a virgin Parrot tree, they have to optionally edit 'configure.prefs', then do 'perl Configure.pl; make'.  After that, they only ever have to do 'make', even if they edit 'configure.prefs'
<japhb> I wave my hands really hard, and everything Just Works.
<japhb> IRC_Warnock
* chromatic once wrote a screenplay with the same ex post facto grant application technique.
<japhb> chromatic: nice!  Was it worth it?
<chromatic> With the inevitable winces that a decade of experience gives, yes.
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<cotto_work> purl
<purl> cotto_work?
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<japhb> Anyone know why purl has been disappearing for longish stretches a lot lately?
<chromatic> It's 12 years old.
<japhb> tweenager
<japhb> "I mean it!  I'm really running away this time!  You'll never see me again, and THEN you'll be sorry!"  ... "Write when you get work, kid."
<bacek> morning :)
<tetragon> Anyone know off-hand if there are any tickets open about t/pmc/exception.t failures?  I haven't found any on RT yet
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<pmichaud> Limbic_Region: (unable to build due to PGE)  -- particle had a similar issue on his Win32 build -- we never could track it down precisely.  But starting from a fresh checkout seems to have fixed the problem (where 'make realclean' didn't).
<pmichaud> At any rate, it doesn't appear to be a problem with PGE itself.
<dalek> r28055 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Remove references to SVK, as we no longer officially support it.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28055
<pmichaud> hanging in an infinite loop is a similar issue -- it's due to some changes within parrot, but not PGE itself.  Make sure you have the latest version of trunk and a freshly built Parrot.
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<nopaste> "tetragon" at 69.196.141.26 pasted "Recently started exception test failures" (234 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13155
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<bacek> pmichaud: ho! You don't sleep yet! 
<bacek> What is your decision about http://nopaste.snit.ch/13149 (without changing subs)
<bacek> http://nopaste.snit.ch/13151 is changing "multi(_,List) to :multi(Sub) in List.pir
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<chromatic> tetragon, can you do an svn bisect and see when those tests started to fail?
<chromatic> It looks like Parrot's exiting with an exit code of zero.
<kid51_at_dinner> purl nopaste
<purl> nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl
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<nopaste> "kid51" at 71.247.51.42 pasted "New failure in t/examples/tutorial.t (Linux)" (69 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13156
<tetragon> I have the same tutorial.t failure as kid51
<nopaste> "kid51" at 71.247.51.42 pasted "failure in t/op/exceptions.t on Darwin (OS X 10.4/ppc) at r28053 -- but not on Linux at same revision" (95 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13157
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<bacek> kid51: works on MacOSX/intel.
<kid51> My last previous test run on Linux was at r27982 on 20080531.  All tests passed.
<bacek> interesting...
<tetragon> I'm OS X 10.5/ppc
<kid51> Another of these ppc vs i386 problems, eh?
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<tetragon> Looks it
<kid51> My last previous test run on 10.4/ppc was at r27808 on 20080525.
<tetragon> I'm rebuilding my r28017 tree as a starting point
<kid51> The Linux failure:  probably between r27973 and r28020 (based on -- believe it or not -- our smoke site).
<tetragon> tutorial.t passes on r28017, but the exceptions fail
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<kid51> On linux, at r28011, I got only TODO errors in t/examples/tutorial.t.  So I didn't get the failure I pasted.
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<kid51> on linux, t/examples/tutorial.t also appeared good at r28013.
<chromatic> Everything's good for me at r28052, x86 32 bit GNU/Linux.
<tetragon> r27997 is bad, I'm currently building r27982
<dalek> r28056 | japhb++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Move DEVELOPING release info to NEWS
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28056
<japhb> Point of procedure: when I commit an approved patch for an RT ticket, do I mark it resolved, or someone else?
<Whiteknight> i think you do it
<Whiteknight> at least, that's how i've been playing the game
<chromatic> Ahh tutorial's failing for me now too.
<Whiteknight> what does tutorial.t test?
<chromatic> I wonder if I accidentally checked in a formatting change.
<kid51> But you may want to wait 24 hours before marking it resolved, i.e., give it a chance to go thru smokes.
<chromatic> 'examples/tutorial/01_temp_var.pir
<japhb> kid51: OK, fair enough
<Whiteknight> ok
<chromatic> I usually mark it when I do it, so I don't forget, but if you want to wait that's fine too.
<japhb> chromatic: Mark it resolved, or mark it in some other way?
<chromatic> Anyone replying to the ticket will re-open it, and we can merge new tickets into old ones, so RT's flexible to support either preference.
<chromatic> Yes, I meant mark it resolved.
<kid51> On Linux at r28026 t/examples/tutorial.t is okay.  My earlier hypothesis was wrong (it was based on smokes from freebsd).
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<chromatic> kid51's a lot better at remembering to keep his tickets up to date than I am, so I've optimized my process for lazy.
<kid51> kid51 was given search strings by Coke for that!
<japhb> chromatic: I might have to follow your lead, not so much to optimize for lazy as for 'constantly interrupted'.
<chromatic> Hah, Coke used to have to follow me around to close tickets!
<chromatic> He's just happy enough I close them now.
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<Whiteknight> I only have three open tickets right now, so it doesnt take me a lot of effort to check them
<Whiteknight> although one of them is outside my area of expertise, and I can't really do anything about it :(
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<chromatic_fajitas> We can give you more....
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<kid51> Trying to 'make' on Darwin:  /usr/bin/g++ -o pbc_merge   is taking forever!
<tetragon> After this realclean, I'll be doing r27990
<tetragon> r27982 is good
<Whiteknight> mmm...now i'm hungary for chromatic fajitas
<kid51> I'm actually trying 27900.
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* tetragon prefers achromatic fajitas
<kid51> Okay, at long last:  Darwin at r27900, t/op/exception.t was okay (except for TODO test)
<tetragon> Why r27900?
<kid51> On Linux, by r 28046, t/examples/tutorial.t had begun to experience the non-TODOed failure reported earlier.  So that should narrow it on Linux to between 28026 and 28046.
<kid51> tetragon:  I went back to my last successful make test on Darwin/ppc.  That was at 27808.  So I went up to the next (! rev % 100).
<tetragon> r27982 succeeded
<kid51> So that suggests that the Darwin problem is between 27900 and 27982.
<tetragon> I'm doing r27990 now
<tetragon> And 27990 is good
<tetragon> I'll do r27993 next
<kid51> Why are you going higher than 27982, which you said succeeded?  Shouldn't you be going lower?
<tetragon> Oh, right
<tetragon> I'm going higher because the even higher rev of r27997 fails
<tetragon> Hrm, between r27990 and r27993 src/exceptions.c was changed
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<kid51> Alright, I'll try a lower one.  Then I must go to bed.
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<kid51> My iBook is so slow that between 'make's I've had time to work on one of my CPAN distributions -- and get the test coverage to 100%!
<kid51> Linux:  failure of t/examples/tutorial.t occurred between 28026 and 28042.
<tetragon> In a couple more builds, I'll know when t/pmc/exception.t and t/op/exception.t started failing
<kid51> Linux:  failure of t/examples/tutorial.t occurred between 28026 and 28031.
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<kid51> Correction:  Linux:  failure was between 28031 and 28042.
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<kid51> Darwin:  t/op/exception.t was okay at r27926 (except for previously mentioned TODO tests)
<tetragon> OS X/ppc, exception.t: Failure started at either r27992 or r27993
<kid51> Linux:  failure was between 28033 and 28042.
* kid51 must sleep
<purl> $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
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<chromatic_fajitas> Ahh, r28039.  Bernhard updated the tutorial to use say instead of print.
<chromatic_fajitas> RT #55196
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<dalek> r28057 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [t] Fixed tutorial test for printing float with say opcode temporarily broken
<dalek> : in r28039 (see RT #55196, where print_n and say_n use differing precisions).
<dalek> : This is a workaround pending resolution of that ticket.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28057
* tetragon finishes her gelato right when r27992 finished
<tetragon> chromatic: The (non-TODO) failures of t/op/exceptions.t and t/pmc/exception.t started with r27992
<chromatic> Thanks, tetragon.
<chromatic> The exit status parts of that commit are the suspicious ones then.
<chromatic> I wonder if it's undefined in certain conditions.
<chromatic> Looks like it.  Hmm.
<nopaste> "chromatic" at 63.105.17.30 pasted "tetragon: resolve exception test failures [PATCH]" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13158
<chromatic> I think getting rid of uninitialized values would fix it, but confirmation would be lovely.
<tetragon> Looks good on r27992, still waiting on r28053 to finish building
<tetragon> Good on r28053
<chromatic> Excellent, thanks.
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<chromatic> Did you file a ticket for this that we need to close?
<tetragon> Not at this point
<tetragon> Too busy watching the builds and keeping enough disk free
<chromatic> That's fine, no need now.
<chromatic> Thanks for reporting and bisecting.
<dalek> r28058 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src] Initialized some variables accidentally rendered uninitialized in r27992
<dalek> : (reported by Seneca Cunningham).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28058
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<cotto_home> barney, ping
<cotto_home> maybe I need to be louder
<cotto_home> PING
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<sheriff_p> Are there any fully-supported real-world languages running on Parrot yet?
<barney> hi cotto, was busy reading mail
<cotto_home> what'd be the best starting place to integrate my phparray code with the rest of plumhead?
<cotto_home> (which, of course, I can't release yet)
<Tene> sheriff_p: not yet.  parrot itself still has a few pieces that need to be completed.
<barney> I could make a dummy PHPArray, and you keep a diverging working copy. This is to avoid MANIFEST problems.
<sheriff_p> hrm
<Tene> sheriff_p: what languages are you most interested in?
<barney> cotto: Need to head out for $DAYJOB
<cotto_home> barney, I'm thinking more from a coding perspective than "how do I avoid pain when I eventually get my commit bit"
<cotto_home> ok
<cotto_home> ttyl
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<Tene> sheriff_p: why are you asking?
<barney> cotto: put PMC code into src/pmc, adapt config/makefiles/root.in and create many tests should be fine
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<sheriff_p> Tene: I have a suspicion that people will start getting excited when it becomes easy to swap libraries between languages
<cotto_home> that's definitely what I'm most looking forward to about Parrot
<sheriff_p> hrm
<Tene> sheriff_p: there are still some namespace issues that need to be worked out before languages can start doing things like that.
<sheriff_p> That's a shame
<Tene> nothing significant, it's just that nobody has gotten around to it yet.
<sheriff_p> I wonder how hard it would be to convert Perl bytecode in to working JS
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* bacek going to make few people sick :)
<bacek> (just read yesterday's #ps log)
<moritz> bacek: ;)
<Tene> what about it?
<moritz> Tene: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrotsketch/2008-06-03#i_327710
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<bacek> any idea which version of pugs known to build on mac/intel?
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<moritz> bacek: the last version I managed to build at all was r19915 on ghc 6.6.1
<bacek> moritz: thanks. I'll try to build it...
<bacek> doesn't work with 6.8.2...
<moritz> bacek: yes, 6.8.* has a different packaging system, less packages are imported by default
<bacek> heh... Pugs is not dead. It just smells like dead...
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<bacek> Module `Data.ByteString.Char8' does not export `copyCStringLen'
<bacek> this is from HsSyck..
<moritz> bacek: warning or error?
<bacek> errro
<bacek> error