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<Tene> ruby has some fun things to implement, but I question their utility.
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<dalek> r28314 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [squaak] 
<dalek> : + replace $<var>=<rule> by <var=rule>
<dalek> : + add factorial examples/factorial.sq
<dalek> : + update MANIFEST
<dalek> : + add read() function for input
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28314
<dalek> r28315 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [NEWS] add note about squaak having a return statement.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28315
<dalek> r28316 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [squaak] update README.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28316
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<dalek> r28317 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] add return statement
<dalek> : and a bit of layout improvements.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28317
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<dalek> r28318 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] set control type on function block. (for return statement to work)
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28318
<dalek> r28319 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] lambda forms without parameters work
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28319
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<dalek> r28320 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] add initial support for dictionary constructors. Only works for identifiers as keys.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28320
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<Zaba> All tests successful (1 subtest UNEXPECTEDLY SUCCEEDED), 25 tests and 569 subtests skipped.
<Zaba> in perrot's make test
<Zaba> Passed TODO     Stat Wstat TODOs Pass  List of Passed
<Zaba> t/stm/runtime.t                1    1  4
<DietCoke> going to yapc::na 2008?
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<DietCoke> good.
<Zaba> hm?
<DietCoke> Talking to the bot.
<purl> NO!
<DietCoke> yes.
<DietCoke> purl, coffee?
<purl> YOU CAN SLEEP WHEN YOU'RE DEAD.
<DietCoke> exactamente, meine Fruende.
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<dalek> r28321 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] updating to trunk r28320
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28321
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<dalek> r28322 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] initial implementation of assert statement. Not complete yet.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28322
<mj41_> hi, just finished porting TapTinder to Catalyst ... see devel server http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/
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<Zaba_> All tests successful, 422 subtests skipped.
<Zaba_> for spectest_regression :>
<pmichaud> yay!
<pmichaud> very glad to hear that.
<Zaba_> why is spectest_regression so slow on some tests?
<Zaba_> for example t/spec/S04-statements/try
<Zaba_> and it skilled 14 out of 25, still took quite some time to run
<pmichaud> parsing is generally the slow part.
<pmichaud> at least, that's the working hypothesis.  Unfortunately we don't have good profiling tools in Parrot yet.
<pmichaud> however... in this case....
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "time for various phases of S04-statements/try.t execution" (21 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13261
<pmichaud> so *something* in the actual execution is taking a fair bit of time.
<pmichaud> I wonder if it's IMCC.
* jonathan votes IMCC
<Zaba_> IMCC?
<purl> IMCC is the c of parrot or the problem or the intermediate code compiler
<pmichaud> IMCC is the part that compiles PIR
<pmichaud> I think I'll add a --profile-stages option so we can see how long each stage is really taking.
<jonathan> pmichaud: When I worked on the .Net bytecode translator, I was reading in the bytecode, translating it, doing bits of optimization along the way...and at the end of it, I still ended up with PIR -> PBC dominating the time of the bytecode translation.
<pmichaud> jonathan: that would explain a lot for me.
<jonathan> When I did optimizations that meant the translator itself did more work to produce less code, it ran quicker overall.
<jonathan> You can see the figures in The Paper.
<pmichaud> ...but it would also mean that PGE parsing Perl 6 is faster than IMCC parsing its generated PIR.
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<jonathan> Well
<jonathan> You have a lot more PIR. :-)
<pmichaud> not really
<pmichaud> not in this case.  Note:
<pmichaud> $ wc -l try.rakudo try.pir 185 try.rakudo 636 try.pir
<pmichaud> grrr.
<pmichaud> 185 lines in try.rakudo translates to 636 lines of try.pir
<jonathan> OK, that isn't crazily more.
<pmichaud> so yes, it's a lot more PIR, but I wouldn't think that 636 li.... right
<jonathan> I fear that our reg alloc might be what's slow.
<pmichaud> I'll definitely put in a profiler option today -- this is interesting.
<jonathan> Mostly because, my bc trans optimizations didn't just use less intructions, but also less registers.
<pmichaud> reg alloc -- very likely.  That thing has been the bane of my existence since I started working on Parrot.
<pmichaud> Zaba++   # asking a very useful questio
<pmichaud> *n
<Zaba_> wow, my curiousity actually did something useful this time.
<pmichaud> very useful.
% Zaba_ is now known as Zaba
<pmichaud> asking the right question s often leads to important new knowledge
<pmichaud> (I used to tell my students that the key to solving most problems was often figuring out the right question to ask.)
<pmichaud> ....but here's another odd thing.
<pmichaud> $ wc -l src/gen_actions.pir
<pmichaud> 13190 src/gen_actions.pir
<pmichaud> IMCC doesn't seem to have trouble with a 13k PIR source
<pmichaud> or even...
<pmichaud> $ wc -l src/gen*.pir
<pmichaud>   13190 src/gen_actions.pir
<pmichaud>    7603 src/gen_builtins.pir
<pmichaud>   26204 src/gen_grammar.pir
<pmichaud>   46997 total
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<pmichaud> okay, definitely something to look into today.
<jonathan> Well, that is odd.
<pmichaud> unfortunately, $otherjob calls me this morning, so it'll be another 90 mins before I can work on it.
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<jonathan> I'm tied up with $otherjob today too. :-|
<DietCoke> (reg alloc) isn't there a way to declare simple register allocation? ISTR something got thrown in there.
<jonathan> :unique_reg
<pmichaud> I know it could be done for individual registers, but I don't think anything more global was added.
<jonathan> For ind...yes.
<pmichaud> although with the new stuff being added to PCT and Rakudo, I've been thinking about making PAST smart enough to re-use registers for the same variable.
<pmichaud> i.e., a :volatile flag that toggles re-use of an existing register for a PAST::Var node
<pmichaud> (and avoids re-fetch.)
<TiMBuS> oh god please do that
<pmichaud> well, semantically we have to be careful about such things.  If we call a subroutine that re-binds a global symbol, then the existing register will hold the stale value.
<TiMBuS> yeah thats what i figured the problem was
<pmichaud> but in some languages that's not really an issue in a large number of cases
<pmichaud> for example, we might know that lexicals are safe
<pmichaud> (and PIR handles rebinding of lexicals anyway.)
<pmichaud> okay, $otherjob calls.
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<Zaba_> <_<
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<dalek> r28323 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] state machine for incremental GC runs.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28323
<dalek> r28324 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] update pobject_lives to respect GC state
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28324
<pmichaud> oh wow.
<pmichaud> it's the *output* that is taking forever.
<Zaba_> pmichaud, oh?
<pmichaud> nopaste coming.
<dalek> r28325 | kjs++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pynie] 
<dalek> : + start on del_stmt
<dalek> : + improve target_list handling.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28325
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "long output time" (41 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13263
<pmichaud> oh, wait, it might be running time.
<pmichaud> I'm going to improve my timing profiler a bit.
<pmichaud> at any rate, we can see that parse+past takes 1.19 seconds, and getting to bytecode takes an additional 0.19 seconds.  So the rest of the slowness comes from actually running the program.
<pmichaud> ...which really doesn't make much sense for such a short program.
<pmichaud> so I'll check into that.
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<pmichaud> but, lunch first.
<Zaba> well.. that test is not a *very* short program
<Zaba> is return really not implemented?
<Zaba> #?rakudo skip "return() not implemented"
<Tene> It wasn't a week ago.
<Tene> It is now.
<Zaba> oh. But t/spec/S04-statements/try.rakudo still has that bit about it being unimplemented
<moritz> I can take a look if it needs to be unspecced
<moritz> erm, unfudged
<Whiteknight> return isn't "completely" implemented, it doesnt support multiple return values
<Tene> If unfudged, it compiles fine, but doesn't pass successfully.
<Tene> perl6.paste: sub foo { try { return 42 }; } my $b = foo();
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 paste" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13265
<Tene> Oops.
<moritz> Tene: you need a ; after a } unless it's followed by \n
<Tene> perl6.paste: sub foo { try { return 42 }; }; my $b = foo();
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 paste" (7 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13266
<Tene> Null PMC access in can()
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<Tene> Oh, right, I was going to commit stuff.
<dalek> r28326 | tene++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [cardinal]
<dalek> : * Move indexed access into the [] and []= methods in Hash and Array
<dalek> : * Hash constructor now accepts a default value, or a closure to construct a default value
<dalek> : * Keyed lookup uses the default value, and calls it if it's a closure
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28326
<Tene> There, that's better.
<Tene> There have been a *lot* of spam bots on ICQ.
<Tene> Wow, mischan.
<purl> Transsexual washing-machine repairers in particular\
<jonathan> pmichaud: The test does a "use Test;" - I'm guessing that causes us to re-enter the compiler, and so the runtime actually has the compilation of Test.pm in it?
* jonathan dinner &
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<smash> hello everyone
<DietCoke> ol!, quebra
% smash has changed the topic of #parrot to: Parrot release warm-up: please update NEWS and PLATFORMS | http://parrotcode.org/ | 6/661 new/open tix | logged in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
<pmichaud> jonathan: yes, that's correct also.
<smash> everyone: NEWS, PLATFORMS, CREDITS, etc. updates are most welcome
<smash> thks
<nopaste> "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "compilation speed of Test.pm" (14 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13268
<pmichaud> so, there ya go.  :-)
<smash> can anyone confirm that my "Release warm up" went throught to the mailing list ?
<pmichaud> smash:  I received a copy, yes.
<smash> pmichaud: cool, thks
<Whiteknight> yeah, i got it
<DietCoke> <AOL/>
<DietCoke> pmichaud: is that "start time" and "duration" in s?
<Zaba> pmichaud, so is it the parser that causes speed issues in try.rakudo?
<japhb> DietCoke: AOLers don't understand empty element tags
<pmichaud> zaba: yes.
<pmichaud> and most of that is the time spent parsing Test.pm
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<pmichaud> so, if we could pre-compile Test.pm down to a .pbc, we'd save ~3.5s per test file
<pmichaud> given 60 test files, we'd save approximately 3.5 minutes in 'make test'
<DietCoke> Nothing wrong with precompiling, izzer?
<DietCoke> I can do that tonight if no one beats me to it. That's just parrot.
<pmichaud> well, we'd need to fix it so that "use Test;"  would know to go for the precompiled form
<pmichaud> as opposed to loading Test.pm
<DietCoke> that's an easy conditional branch, though
<DietCoke> (and I already did this once for tcl, but never activated it. =-)
<Zaba> pmichaud, but it doesn't sound normal to precompile modules used in normal perl6 scripts..
<pmichaud> I put all of this as a work item for the ParrotHackathon
<DietCoke> pmichaud: k.
<pmichaud> under the general heading of "HLL library interop"
<DietCoke> zaba; this works in perl5 today; if there's a precompiled version, it's favored.
<Zaba> DietCoke, oh.
<pmichaud> Zaba: one of the goals of Parrot was to make it easier to keep around precompiled versions of HLL libraries
* Zaba codes on perl5 and didn't know of that >_>
<pmichaud> I think we should also see about moving Test.pm out of rakudo's root
<Zaba> pmichaud, so the execution of the try.rakudo itself takes about 2 seconds?
<pmichaud> Zaba: a little less than that, but yes.
<DietCoke> zaba: I'm pretty sure they abused that for moose.
<pmichaud> and most of that is still parsing time.
<pmichaud> improving parsing speed is one of my goals for the summer (but a lot of that will come as part of implementing protoregexes and longest-token-matching in PGE)
<pmichaud> right now we lose a lot of time chasing false branches in the grammar that we can avoid
<Zaba> DietCoke, it doesn't help moose, it's still slow
<pmichaud> afk for a bit.
<Whiteknight> does PGE support tree-trimming directives like "commit" or "reject"?
<PerlJam> "reject"?
<Whiteknight> yeah, like in Parse::RecDescent. if you match a particular peice, you regect it and backtrack
<Whiteknight> s/regect/reject/
<PerlJam> sounds an awful lot like "fail"
<Whiteknight> maybe that's the new name for the old concept
<Zaba> what's fail()?
<purl> i heard fail() was mentioned in S04
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<Whiteknight> if it is what I think it is, it's a parser directive that lets you stop your current attempt and backtrack to the previous rule
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<Tene> Can someone tell me what should go in NEWS?
<Tene> Describe the purpose of NEWS?
<smash> Tene: thing that have changed since the last release, or new stuff that has been done
<smash> new features, or documentaion updates for example
<smash> net language status
<smash> s/net/new/
<smash> DietCoke: is there an hackathon happening on sunday ?
<DietCoke> saturday & sunday
<smash> nice
<DietCoke> tene: NEWS is what goes in the press releases we send out out with each release.
<DietCoke> (the bulleted list portion)
<Tene> I've never contributed to NEWS as I can't figure out what the appropriate level of detail is.
<smash> just a glimpse overview, don't need to go into a lot of detail
<smash> take a look at the NEWS regarding previous releases to have an ideia
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<Tene> What was the date of the last release?
<smash> May 22
<smash> Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation"
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<particle> travel delays abound!
<smash> DietCoke: some t/codingstd failling
<particle> DietCoke: you should check your flight, you're probably delayed, too
* particle has zillions of windows failures, will investigate sunday
<particle> likely some of chromatic's code that needs simple portability fixes or similar
<particle> i'm pretty sure it's in imcc, anyway
<smash> particle: fixing them before monday would be nice
<smash> need to get a windows box around during the weekend
<smash> (I need, I mean)
<dalek> r28327 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pdump] Fixed a compilation error -- CONST_STRING does not work here yet
<dalek> : (reported by François Perrad).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28327
<dalek> r28328 | tene++ | trunk:
<dalek> : NEWS updates for cardinal
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28328
<particle> smash: yes, i'll concentrate on fixes during the hackathon
<particle> before that, i'm devoting my energy towards mk_language_shell.pl
<smash> particle: i'll try to get a windows box in the meantime to help you
<Tene> particle: what are you doing with the language shell?
<dalek> r28329 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [pdump] Fixed C++ compilation errors (enums and ints aren't interchangeable).
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28329
<particle> tene: adding opp
<particle> tene: i'm doing a lightning talk on creating a turing-complete lang using pct
<Tene> nice
<particle> adding opp would give me conditionals in the form of ?!
<particle> then i only need loops and variables/assignment
<DietCoke> particle: nope, I'm listed as on time.
<particle> so was i, until i got here
<Tene> flight delays today?
<pmichaud> I'm glad I'm flying tomorrow morning.  :-)
<DietCoke> Uh... it says the flight leaves at 5:09; my printed out copy says 5:50.
<particle> yep, due to early a.m. thunderstorms
<DietCoke> leaving for the airport NOW then. =-)
<particle> good luck DietCoke, you may be waiting for me
<DietCoke> k
<DietCoke> see you there.
<DietCoke> -> yacp
<DietCoke> -> yapc
<pmichaud> safe travels, DietCoke 
<smash> DietCoke: later
<particle> ok, new departure eta 13:30PDT, arrival 1900CDT
<particle> not so bad
<smash> heh
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<smash> Tene: NEWS update looks good, thks
* smash dinner &
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<Tene> ARGH.  My glasses are giving me a headache.
<dalek> r28330 | tene++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [cardinal]
<dalek> : * Treat EOF as a terminator
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28330
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<jhorwitz> particle: i assume your lightning talk was accepted too?
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<particle> jhorwitz: yep
<particle> my flight is 4p wed, so we've gotta go early!
<jhorwitz> yikes!
<particle> ok, my flight is pre-boarding now
<particle> time to shut down
<jhorwitz> he said all the "serious" talks are first, so shouldn't be a problem.
<particle> :)
<jhorwitz> have a good flight.  see ya sunday afternoon!
<particle> i'll be writing it on the plane
<particle> ~~
<Tene> looks like there's a problem with my cron job on feather3.
<Tene> Dunno what it is, though.
* Tene rebuilds stuff by hand.
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* smash back
<smash> t/benchmark/benchmarks.t failling some tests
<smash> something related with 'save' opcode
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<smash> they were also failling for parrot-0.6.2 release
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<smash> 'save' was deprecated
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* tetragon notices a new OpenGL example
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* tetragon watches the teapot conveyor
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<Tene> shapes.pir segfaults for me.
* Tene prods tewk.
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<tetragon> t/stm/runtime.t subtest 4 is passing on my box
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<avar> 0/w 28
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* DietCoke ~~ from the dorm room.
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<dalek> r28331 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [DOCS] remove reference to chip-as-architect; assume our developers know how POD works.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28331
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<dalek> r28332 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tools] add operator precedence parser to mk_language_shell.pl
<dalek> : ~ new file: src/parser/grammar-oper.pg
<dalek> : ~ new rules: 'expression' and 'term'
<dalek> : ~ add some simple operators
<dalek> : ~ add a sanity test
<dalek> : ~ add a README file
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28332
<dalek> r28333 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tools] fixup regex for accessing revision in tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28333
<dalek> r28334 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tools] *really* fixup regex for accessing revision in tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl. i'm tired.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28334
<dalek> r28335 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : this is just embarassing.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28335
<TiMBuS> oh now you're just trying to get more karma
<TiMBuS> ;>
<DietCoke> wow, I thought *I* screwed up.
<DietCoke> thanks for making me look good, jerry. I appreciate it!
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* TimToady got here
<diakopter> [w]here
<TimToady> iit
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* Tene considers moving "XXX Find the RT ticket and reference it here" from Coke's last commit into an RT ticket.
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