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<japhb> Infinoid: had a chance to reboot and test glxgears yet?
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<dalek> r28459 | japhb++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [CREDITS] Update entry for japhb
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28459
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<TiMBuS> japhb, you put glxgears on parrot?
<japhb> Infinoid: See http://bgoglin.livejournal.com/15598.html ; note various comments on stability of Mesa tip, especially on Intel.  (Yes, that article is for Debian, but it looks like much of that commentary is generic)
<japhb> TiMBuS: nope.  Infinoid has some hairy problems with imploding DRI on his box.  My suggestion to try glxgears was to A) rule out anything Parrot-related, and B) make a much cleaner test case for the Mesa folks.
<japhb> TiMBuS: besides which, allison has asked me not to add to the Parrot tree straight ports things released under different licenses.
<TiMBuS> ohh i see
<TiMBuS> :( i wanted to see how well glxgears ran on it
<japhb> heh
<TiMBuS> everyone knows its THE benchmark
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<japhb> probably pretty quick ... as I recall, glxgears is optimized for speed in a very cross-platform way.
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<TiMBuS> ..
<TiMBuS> did.. glxgears just crash X
<TiMBuS> it did D:
<japhb> TiMBuS: nice.  Platform?
<TiMBuS> ubunto
<japhb> Hmmm.  What Mesa release?  Actually, can you paste your glxinfo?
<TiMBuS> i keep getting told to switch to another distro but i still dont really see why i need to.
<TiMBuS> it was probably a problem in xgl
% japhb has changed the topic of #parrot to: Parrot release warm-up: please update NEWS, CREDITS and PLATFORMS | http://parrotcode.org/ | 5/649/88 new/open/stalled tix | logged in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
<TiMBuS> Jun 17 17:36:16 TiMBoX kernel: [ 3487.761132] Xgl[6744]: segfault at 00000cf8 eip b7a60b0a esp bfa1f780 error 4
<TiMBuS> bam
<japhb> wheeee
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<TiMBuS> yay, internet
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<TiMBuS> so, because of yesterdays annoyance, i made a 'reverse' opcode for strings in parrot, then added a reverse method to string pmc's
<TiMBuS> i mean it probably wasnt necessary
<TiMBuS> should i submit a patch or something?
<TiMBuS> i mean, in retrospect i also probably could have just patched the string pmc 'reverse' method so that it called unmake_COW
<moritz> TiMBuS: you can try to send a patch to parrotbug@perl.org, or perl6-internals@perl.org
<TiMBuS> the problem is im not sure what they want, since it says in the header files that they are automated or something.
<moritz> ah well, then you should patch the sources file from which they are autogenerated
<TiMBuS> i would be lying if i knew what that actually was
<TiMBuS> the c files maybe?
<TiMBuS> but maybe not im not really sure
<Tene> the c files are generated from the .pmc files
<TiMBuS> not the op files
<TiMBuS> i think ill assume the .h files are generated from the .c files
<TiMBuS> at least that what it looks like
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<dalek> r28460 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [install]
<dalek> : - Protoobject still used by ecmascript
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28460
<dalek> r28461 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [PLATFORMS]
<dalek> : - update for MinGW32
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28461
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<pmichaud> perl6: say 'a'..'z'
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzaaabacadaeafagahaiajakalamanaoapaqarasatauavawaxayazbabbbcbdbebfbgbhbibjbkblbmbnbobpbqbrbsbtbubvbwbxbybzcacbcccdcecfcgchcicjckclcmcncocpcqcrcsctcucvcwcxcyczdadbdcdddedfdgdhdidjdkdldmdndodpdqdrdsdtdudvdwdxdydzeaebecedeeefegeheiejekelemeneoepeqereseteuevewexeyezfafbfc
<polyglotbot> ..fdfefffgfhfifjfkflfmfnfofpfqfrfsftfufvfwfxfyfzga...
<smash> cute
<pmichaud> polyglotbot is running an outdated version of rakudo.
<smash> oh
<pmichaud> that was fixed in r28455
* smash nods
<smash> pmichaud: can you please run 'make world' and double check that compiling src/packdump.c fails
<pmichaud> in a sec.
<smash> just reverted c's change int r27332 and now it works
<pmichaud> rebuilding now.
<pmichaud> correct, src/packdump.c fails in "make world" for me.
<smash> ok.. thank you
<dalek> r28462 | smash++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [release]
<dalek> :  * revert change in r27332, 'make world' is happy now
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28462
<Tene> perl6: say 'a'..'z'
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz␤]
<moritz> cool name ;)
<moritz> is perl6 rakudo?
<moritz> ruby: print "hi"
<Tene> yes, it's rakudo
<moritz> cardinal: print "hi"
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[hi]
<Tene> chitchat: Transcript show: 'hi'
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[hi␤]
<smash> anyone wants to make any last change before release !?
<smash> damn, more test failling on windows
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<Zaba_> perl6: say 2**10
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[1024␤]
<Zaba_> :D
<Zaba_> perl6: say "hello world\n"
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[hello world␤␤]
<Zaba_> perl6: my $foo = "test"; say $foo
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[test␤]
<Zaba_> perl6: my @foo = ('test', 'moep'); say @foo[0] . @foo[1];
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near ". @foo[1];"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<moritz> Zaba_: . is a method call in Perl 6
<Zaba_> oh right.
<Zaba_> what's concat then?
<moritz> Tene: could you stip all those stack traces from the output?
<moritz> Zaba_: ~
<Zaba_> oh.
<Tene> moritz: probably.
<purl> Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder.
<Zaba_> perl6: my @foo = ('test', 'moep'); say @foo[0] ~ @foo[1];
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[testmoep␤]
<Zaba_> mmm
<moritz> perl6: my @foo = <test moep>; say @foo;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[testmoep␤]
<Zaba_> perl6: say 16|2;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[get_string() not implemented in class 'Junction'␤current instr.: 'print' pc 9632 (src/gen_builtins.pir:6354)␤called from Sub 'say' pc 9654 (src/gen_builtins.pir:6364)␤called from Sub '_block11' pc 52 (EVAL_10:20)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 806
<polyglotbot> ..(src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:469)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;e...
<Zaba_> perl6: say 16+|2;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[18␤]
<Zaba_> perl6: say 16~|2;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[36␤]
<Zaba_> heh
<Zaba_> ah
* Zaba_ wants perl6 highlighting in vim
<Tene> cd editor ; make vim-install
<Tene> or some such
<Zaba_> I think that's just pir
<Tene> orite
<moritz> Zaba_: in pugs repo, util/perl6.vim
<Zaba_> moritz, pugs repo, I don't have that
<moritz> http://svn.pugscode.org/pugs/util/perl6.vim
<Zaba_> aha
<moritz> not really good, but better than p5 syntax hilighting for perl 6 ;)
<Zaba_> indeed.
<Zaba_> personally I'd extend perl5, not sure whether that one does that..
<Zaba_> perl5 highlighting taht is
<Zaba_> that*
<Zaba_> perl6: my @a = <test moep hax>; for (@a) -> my $i { print "element '$i'  "; }; say ""
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "-> my $i {"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<Zaba_> perl6: my @a = <test moep hax>; my $i; for (@a) -> $i { print "element '$i'  "; }; say ""
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[element 'test'  element 'moep'  element 'hax'  ␤]
<Zaba_> hmm
<bacek> perl6: my @a = <test moep hax>; for (@a) -> $i { print "element '$i'  "; }; say ""
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[element 'test'  element 'moep'  element 'hax'  ␤]
<Zaba_> so no my is needed there, or does it just not use strict?
<bacek> Zaba_, not needed. $i is argument for lambda
<Zaba_> oh.
<bacek> (not exactly, but close to)
<Zaba_> so initializing it separately with my; is redundant?
<Zaba_> like I did in the second case.
<bacek> Zaba_, yes.
<Zaba_> ok
<bacek> AFAIK it not even 'initializing'.
<bacek> perl6: my $l = -> $i { say "i $i" }; for (1..3) $l;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "= -> $i { "␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<bacek> hmm...
<bacek> pugs: my $l = -> $i { say "i $i" }; for (1..3) $l;
<moritz> for needs an explict block
<moritz> for 1..3 { $l($_)} # should work
<Zaba_> $l($_)?
<Zaba_> heh
<Zaba_> perl6: my $i = -> $i { say "i $i" }; for (1..3) { $l }
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "= -> $i { "␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<Zaba_> perl6: my $i = -> $i { say "i $i" }; for (1..3) { $l($_); }
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "= -> $i { "␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<bacek> Zaba_, not in rakudo yet.
<bacek> <bacek_>  pugs: my $l = -> $i { say "i $i" }; for (1..3) { $l($_) };
<bacek> <p6eval> OUTPUT[i 1␤i 2␤i 3␤]
<Zaba_> aha
<Zaba_> bacek, so -> defines a lambda?
<bacek> Zaba_, yes.
<Zaba_> perl6: my $i = -> { say "i" }
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "= -> { say"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<Zaba_> bacek, which rakudo doesn't do yet?
<bacek> latest.
<bacek> perl6: my &l = -> {say 'hi'}; l();
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "= -> {say "␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called fr...
<Zaba_> &l? you can define subs like that?
<Zaba_> oh wait, if I do my $i = lambda, do I get a sub reference?
<dalek> r28463 | smash++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [release]
<dalek> :  * mark a couple os tests TODO because they fail in windows, i'll file some RT tickets about them later
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28463
<moritz> yes, and yes
<bacek> perl6: my &s = sub { say 'hi' }; s();
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[hi␤]
<bacek> ...and yes :)
<Zaba_> isn't sub { ... } already a lambda?
<bacek> perl6: my $i=1; my &s=sub { say $i}; $i=42; s();
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[42␤]
<bacek> AFAIU no...
<Zaba_> perl6: my $i = sub { say "sub" }; &$i();
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Syntax error at line 1, near "&$i();"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;TOP' pc 13865 (src/gen_grammar.pir:267)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;parse' pc 585
<polyglotbot> ..(src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:359)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;compile' p...
<Zaba_> perl6: my $i = sub { say "sub" }; $i();
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[sub␤]
<Zaba_> hm
<Zaba_> perl6: -> { say "hi" }
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Syntax error at line 1, near "-> { say \""␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;TOP' pc 13865 (src/gen_grammar.pir:267)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;parse' pc 585
<polyglotbot> ..(src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:359)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;compi...
<Zaba_> perl6: my $s-> { say "hi" }
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "-> { say \""␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 20609 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc 19622 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called f...
<smash> no more updates to PLATFORMS ? anyone ?
<smash> windows!? darwin !? linux x86_64 ?
* bacek remember ZX Spectrum...
<bacek> moritz, BTW, http://bacek.homeip.net/cgit/ :)
<bacek> afk #sleep
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<donaldh> arm-ppc-gcc-4.1.2
<donaldh> smash: linux-arm-gcc4.1.2 running make test just now
<donaldh> slo tho
<smash> roger
<moritz> 'make fulltest' successful un linux i386
<smash> moritz: which gcc version? and 32 or 64 bits ?
<moritz> smash: gcc 4.1.2, 32 bit
<moritz> Debian stable
<purl> it has been said that Debian stable is 2.1.. slink or stale or rock solid or what biologists would call 'dead' or interesting for historical study or _still_ not OpenBSD
<moritz> purl, Debian stable is also Etch
<purl> okay, moritz.
<Zaba_> purl, openbsd?
<purl> it has been said that openbsd is the most secure OS on the planet, with releases every 6 months like clockwork or available at http://www.openbsd.org or PATCHES WELCOME. What? You can't supply a patch? Then bugger off. or very easy to install or http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1110.gif or the most secure of siv's love muscles or so secure, one can IRC As root or sensative to ByteLoader too
<Zaba_> it's not that secure by concept..
<smash> moritz: ok, thks
* moritz is away for a day
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<dalek> r28464 | fperrad++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [Lua]
<dalek> : - fix build (merge of a new real_exception call)
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28464
<donaldh> smash: all complex number tests fail, but then this arm doesn't have an FPU ;-)
<smash> ok
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<dalek> r28465 | smash++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [release]
<dalek> :  * updates for 0.6.3 release
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28465
<dalek> r28466 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [tools] fix small bugs and a little formatting in mk_language_shell.pl
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28466
<dalek> r28467 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [abc] regenerated from tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28467
<dalek> r28468 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : manifest updates after languages/abc regen
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28468
<dalek> r28469 | fperrad++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [rakudo]
<dalek> : - fix build (merge of some new real_exception calls)
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28469
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<dalek> r28470 | smash++ | RELEASE_0_6_3:
<dalek> : tagged release 0.6.3
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28470
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<donaldh> smash: "linux-arm-gcc4.1.2                Y    -    -     ?   ?   Y    Y/5   ?  20080617"
<smash> pmichaud: ping
<smash> chromatic !! PING!
<nopaste> "donaldh" at 144.254.89.228 pasted "japhb: patch for OpenGL on cygwin" (66 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13296
<donaldh> japhb: the dynext pach fixes a SEGV caused by null path to strcpy
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<Eevee> Tene: I am now!
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<dalek> r28471 | jkeenan++ | handledarwin:
<dalek> : Second attempt at providing patch for bug reported in
<dalek> : http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=55856.  Correct
<dalek> : Parrot::Configure::Step::Methods::_handle_darwin_for_macports() to test for
<dalek> : definedness of variables holding directories.  Extract some repeated code into
<dalek> : _add_flags_not_yet_seen().  Correct t/steps/auto_readline-01.t to return value
<dalek> : of 'linkflags' to previous state if it has been altered.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28471
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<Coke> smash: how goes?
<smash> Coke: besides cpan evil magic, ok
<Coke> IS it safe for us to break trunk again
<Coke> ?
<smash> oh, sure
<smash> .tar.gz already created
<smash> and tag too
<Coke> and all tested, etc.? ^_^
<masak> smash++
<smash> Coke: yes
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<Coke> smash++
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<Whiteknight> smash++
<Whiteknight> what's the release called?
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<smash> release not finished yet
<smash> Whiteknight: Parrot 0.6.3 "Beautiful Parrot"
<Whiteknight> very nice
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<Infinoid> *sparkle* squawk *gleam*
<pmichaud> perl6: say 'hello yapc'
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[hello yapc␤]
<pmichaud> rakudo: say 'hello yapc'
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* davidfetter waves to pmichaud
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<pmichaud> testing for my presentation :-)
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<Whiteknight> who picks release names, the release manager?
<pmichaud> yes.
<Zaba> who's the release manager?
* pmichaud points at smash.
<Zaba> aha
% smash has changed the topic of #parrot to: Parrot release: almost there | http://parrotcode.org/ | 5/649/88 new/open/stalled tix | logged in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
<pmichaud> will this be 0.6.3?
* davidfetter steers this conversation in another direction
<davidfetter> oops. mischan.
<japhb> pmichaud: judging by backlog, yes
<smash> pmichaud: yes, 0.6.3
<pmichaud> thanks.  (updates slide)
<Eevee> hope this moose crowd sticks around for rakudo
<Zaba> moose crowd?
<pmichaud> I don't mind performing to an empty house.  :-)
<pmichaud> I don't mind performing to a full one, either :-)
<Whiteknight> i've done both
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<pmichaud> (talk before mine is "Moose", thus "Moose crowd".  No antlers yet.)
<Coke> pmichaud: I hope you don't mind hecklers.
<pmichaud> I can handle them.  :-)
<pmichaud> Except for PerlJam.
<pmichaud> He was always disruptive in class.  :-P
<smash> heheheh
<Eevee> this wifi is terrible
<Eevee> huzzah, I managed to send a line
<Eevee> only took five minutes
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<PerlJam> I've always been the class clown when I get excessively bored.
<PerlJam> Yeah, the wireless comes and goes for me too
<Whiteknight> group wireless is never as good as advertised, collision detection is not always robust enough
<Eevee> pmichaud: you're against YA web framework and timezones so you'll probably have a pretty good crowd
<Eevee> so do we irc-heckle you here or in #yapc?
* Coke wonders where eevee is.
<Coke> I don't see any pokemon...
<smash> http://search.cpan.org/~smash/parrot-0.6.3/
<Zaba> PerlJam, how often do you get excessively bored? :>
<Eevee> Coke: middle section against left aisle, seventh row from the front, blue pi thinkgeek shirt and white macbook
<PerlJam> smash++  
<Eevee> smash++
<Coke> smash: 404. :|
<PerlJam> Zaba: depends on my environment I suppose.
<smash> Coke: check proxie
<Eevee> 404 here too
% Ademan has joined #parrot
<Eevee> and my 'proxy' is just ssh -D, no caching
<Coke> if you just uploaded it, it willt ake some time for search.cpan.org to see it.
<Eevee> and hopefully I'm the only one on it anyway
* Zaba is very often bored
<Eevee> how long?
<purl> How long must we sing this song?
<Zaba> because I have the summer break =/
<Coke> purl, scooby snack!
<purl> Rank roo, Coke!
<japhb> donaldh: Patch looks reasonable, except it needs care re: whitespace.  Leading tabs need to change to spaces, and indents are 4 columns per nesting level as per docs/pdds/pdd07_codingstd.pod.  BTW, I like the added $verbose output.
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<smash> Coke: maybe
<donaldh> japhb: okay, do you want me to revise?
<smash> everyone around here already sees it
<japhb> donaldh: Yes, because the next step is to submit it as an RT.  It affects src/ and config/, so it has to be reviewed and tested on at least one variant each of Mac OS X and Linux, and preferably all variants of Win32.
<donaldh> great.
% smash has changed the topic of #parrot to: Parrot 0.6.3 "Beautiful Parrot" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 5/649/88 new/open/stalled tix | logged in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
<Zaba> yay!
<kid51> donaldh: Was this patch on the mailing list?
<japhb> donaldh: Was that honest or sarcastic?
% grim_fandango has joined #parrot
<donaldh> sarcastic
<japhb> donaldh: kid51's rules.  :-)
<donaldh> to the testing on all variants.
<Eevee> japhb: who do you know that gets excited about testing on all variants of win32?
<japhb> Eevee, donaldh: To be clear, donaldh does not need to do the testing himself.  We as a group do.
<kid51> No, I simply can't remember if I I've seen a patch from donaldh.
<japhb> kid51: it was nopasted earlier this morning
<japhb> http://nopaste.snit.ch/13296
<donaldh> will repaste shortly
<kid51> Here at yapc my wireless connection is poor; can't view web pages.
<japhb> oy
<PerlJam> It's heckling time  :-)
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<kid51> believe it or not, irc is only thing working for me -- and only because I'm running via feather.
<Coke> mmmm, feateher
<kid51> pmichaud starts his talk
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<PerlJam> feather++
<Eevee> need to earn my way onto that contributor list!
<PerlJam> Eevee: TPF has this nice chunk of money for perl6 work, if you'd like to apply for a grant :-)
<Eevee> PerlJam: there's no way I could keep up with, say, jonathan++
<nopaste> "donaldh" at 144.254.89.228 pasted "japhb: patch for OpenGL on cygwin" (68 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13299
<NotFound> By the way, what will be the acronym for The Parrot Foundation? TPF is already taken ;)
<Eevee> TOPF
<Eevee> the other PF
<donaldh> TPaF
<japhb> donaldh: excellent.  Going to test on Linux now.
<donaldh> thx
<PerlJam> Eevee: that's okay, volume per time isn't that important
<jonathan> Contributor list? "And there's really weird guy with an overgrown beard who lives everywhere in Europe simultaneously."
% Ademan has joined #parrot
* jonathan would wish he was there to see pmichaud++'s talk, but he gets to see it at YAPC::EU anyway.
<Eevee> jonathan: one of pmichaud's slides
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<TimToady> pmichaud: you want 駱駝道 probably
<smash> Coke: everything ok now on cpan, just need to sync to all servers
<Coke> woot
<Coke> smash?
<purl> smash is an Offspring album or Nuno Carvalho. or at mailto:mestre.smash@gmail.com or irc.perl.org's Dr. Nick
<Coke> smash is also teh awesome.
<purl> okay, Coke.
<Eevee> wouldn't there be a 'no' in 'way of the camel'?  or does that cheat and use a noun as an adjective
* Eevee only know bits and pieces of jp grammar, alas
<smash> Coke: we must wait for cpan mirrors to sync
<TimToady> Japanese can make compounds
<Eevee> ah
<Eevee> need to get my ass in gear and just learn it someday
<TimToady> another optional spelling would be 楽道, the way of comfort
<TimToady> or ease
<TimToady> since 楽 is pronounced "raku"
<Eevee> TimToady: how'd you start learning japanese?
<TimToady> wandering around Kyoto with a friend who started teaching me words
<Eevee> oh, that would do it
<Coke> having a language partner is crucial. :|
<Coke> koohii-o kudasai!
<TimToady> well, I don't get much chance to practice
<TimToady> koohii diasuki!
<TimToady> *daisuki
<Eevee> I only know one person who knows much japanese, and we barely have anything to talk about in english
<Eevee> so she's good for specific questions but not so much conversing
<Coke> karma chromatic
<purl> chromatic has karma of 1261
<Coke> karma coke
<purl> coke has karma of 1930
<Coke> karma c
<purl> c has karma of 6975
<Eevee> karma eevee
<purl> eevee has karma of 9
<Eevee> woohoo
<Eevee> almost double digits
<kid51> karma kid51
<purl> kid51 has karma of 39
<silug> src/packdump.c:40: error: nonnull argument references non-pointer operand (argument 1, operand 2)
<kid51> Didn't know I had any karma at all.
<silug> anybody know what that might be about?
<Coke> {\c--
<Coke> eevee++ # attending yapc
<TimToady> 'course, if you want to leave it ambiguous in japanese, use syllabary: らくどう
<smash> silug: yes
<Eevee> hahaha, thanks
<Coke> karma jkeen?
<purl> jkeen has neutral karma
<Coke> karma jkeen@verizon.net
<purl> jkeen@verizon.net has neutral karma
<Coke> hurm.
<PerlJam> I don't get karma for attending yapc?
<silug> smash: care to share?  :)
<smash> silug: that was fixed in some of these last check ins, try to svn up
<silug> ah, already doing that.  :)
<Eevee> damn, I don't have jp input set up on this laptop
<Eevee> oh good, better supported in hardy
<Infinoid> parrot-0.6.3.tar.gz has hit cpan.glines.org and cpan.inode.at (my upstream)
<smash> cool
<Eevee> jonathan: quick, make rakudo pass sqrt(-1) == NaN
<PerlJam> heh
<PerlJam> or even make rakudo understand NaN if that's not much harder
<silug> smash: 0.6.3 should have that fixed then?
<Eevee> actually, I might be able to do that
<dalek> r28472 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] implement basic sweep algorithms:
<dalek> : * iterate over pools (needs to change)
<dalek> : * iterate over arenas and free objects
<dalek> : * partial loop-unrolling with a  magical duff's device
<dalek> : * add items to free list by index with pointer black magic
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28472
<Eevee> wouldn't it just be a Num constant only equal to itself 
<Whiteknight> isn't every Num constant only equal to itself?
<PerlJam> Eevee: What is the antecedent to your "it"?
<PerlJam> NaN?
<purl> NaN is incomparable with itself.
<PerlJam> purl++ 
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<Eevee> Whiteknight: well, okay, yes.  but it would be..  not..  actually a number
<PerlJam> Whiteknight: not NaN
<Whiteknight> NaaN
<PerlJam> Whiteknight: not Inf
* davidfetter wonders about the latest on sandboxing/restricted execution
<Eevee> PerlJam: then pmichaud's test doesn't make a lot of sense
<Eevee> how do you test for NaN then?
* davidfetter looks over allison's way
<PerlJam> Eevee: oh, good point.
<purl> Thanks, PerlJam, I'm glad you agree with me.
<Whiteknight> if(segfaults_parrot(num)) { num.isNan; }
<allison> davidfetter: the PDD is done, the implementation is scheduled for August
<PerlJam> Eevee: perhaps this is one of those cases where we need to use one of the other equivalence relations (eqv, ===)
<davidfetter> allison, great :)
<davidfetter> got a ref to the pdd?
<allison> http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/pdd/pdd18_security.html
<Eevee> hm, scim not working.  oh well.
<smash> silug: yes!
* davidfetter finds it hilarious that that page has a little noscript snake on it
<japhb> packy?
<davidfetter> thanks, allison :)
<silug> ../../parrot ../../runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Perl6Grammar.pir  --output=PGE/builtins_gen.pir PGE/builtins.pg
<silug> gmake[1]: *** [PGE.pbc] Segmentation fault
<silug> that can't be good
<Eevee> PerlJam: whle the wifi is sorta working, let me check the spec
<smash> silug: what were you trying to do ?
<Eevee> oh, duh, I have a checkout
<silug> smash: just rebuilding my fedora package
<smash> hmm.. let me see if i can find a fedora
<silug> smash: you can take a look at it on my laptop after lunch, if you want
<silug> (assuming you're at yapc)
<smash> err.. you're on the other side of the atlantic !!
<smash> :-D
% jjore is now known as zz_jjore
<silug> you're on #yapc.  that confused me.  :)
% zz_jjore is now known as jjore
<Whiteknight> so can we monkey around in trunk again?
<smash> Whiteknight: sure
<tewk> pmichaud++ your fix for <.RULE_NAME> reduce my parse time by 33%
<Whiteknight> yay! I've got a lot of monkeying to do
<Eevee> python: print 42
<smash> silug: ops, i forgot that
<Eevee> or do I need the name of the languages/ dir
<Eevee> pynie: print 42
<PerlJam> Eevee: interestingly STD.pm doesn't have any provision for Inf or NaN that I can see.
<Eevee> you suck polyglotbot 
<silug> smash: i didn't mean to say you weren't welcome or anything.  :)
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<Eevee> PerlJam: odd
<TimToady> Inf and Nan would likely parse as subset types
<TimToady> so they're probably just names imported into Prelude from Num
<PerlJam> ah
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<Eevee> ah
<smash> silug: heheheh..
<Eevee> chromatic++
<PerlJam> one of you people in the front row remind pm that there's a parrot release today
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<dalek> r28473 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [compilers/imcc] Allowing .macro_const in *.pir files as per rt#55538.
<dalek> : * update lexer to parse it correctly
<dalek> : * update generated files
<dalek> : * Including a few tests for it in t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro.t
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28473
<Eevee> pmichaud++  # irc applause
<kid51> exit
<dalek> r28474 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
<dalek> : [pdd25cx] Whitespace fixes for coding standards tests.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28474
<kid51> 
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<Eevee> cjfields: I came up with a tiny patch for fixing IO.readline returning parrot strings
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<cjfields> Eevee: probably should submit it to rt.
<Eevee> boo rt, that is way more complicated than heckling people on irc
<Eevee> okay
<Eevee> lunchtime now
<smash> silug: just finished building parrot-0.6.3 on fedora core 9.. running 'make test' now
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<cjfields> perl6: regex Test {(A)(Z)}; "AZ" ~~ Test; my $a = $0; my $z = $1; say $a..$z;
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[increment() not implemented in class 'String'␤current instr.: 'postfix:++' pc 10973 (src/gen_builtins.pir:7331)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Range;shift' pc 4529 (src/gen_builtins.pir:3121)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Range;list' pc 4497 (src/gen_builtins.pir:3103)␤called from Sub
<polyglotbot> ..'parrot;List;!flatten' pc 2269 (src/gen_builtins.pir:1653)␤called f...
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<smash> silug: well, some perl modules are missing to run 'make test' and i don't install permissions.. but builds ok
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<dalek> r28475 | smash++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [release]
<dalek> :  * bugfix and history update
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28475
<cjfields> Anyone know how to /msg the perl6 evalbot?
<dalek> r28476 | smash++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [docs]
<dalek> :  * release docs small update
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28476
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<japhb> cjfields: do you mean: /msg polyglotbot perl6: say "foo"
* japhb has lost power, so is running only laptop and network equipment on UPS to make it last longer
<cjfields> That works.  Thanks!
<japhb> cjfields: you're welcome.  :-)
<cjfields> japhb++
<japhb> msg donaldh your patch worked on Linux.  Only Mac OS X (and preferably some other Win32) to go.
<purl> Message for donaldh stored.
<Coke> j/win 6
<Coke> smash++
<Coke> smash++
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<smash> i'm going to drink my beer !! bbl
* smash wavez.
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<barney> smash++
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<kid51> purl seen smash?
<purl> smash was last seen on #parrot 24 minutes and 16 seconds ago, saying: wavez. 
<cotto_yapc> smash++
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<Infinoid> kid51: [10:47] <@smash> i'm going to drink my beer !! bbl
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<DietCoke> I posted the release announcement on the parrot blog.
<DietCoke> smash++ again.
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<limbic> salutations all from YAPC::NA
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* barney won't rename Plumhead to 'Jackass Penguin', maybe to 'Pheasant Pigeon' or 'Pipit'
<pmichaud> PHkeet
<Whiteknight> I like "Pipit"
<barney> Or 'PHP on wings'
% kid51 has joined #parrot
<pmichaud> parakeet
<purl> parakeet is in explorer mode
<pmichaud> pharakeet
<pmichaud> phonie  :-)
<Whiteknight> "Lousy"
<pmichaud> (following the ponie, punie, pynie trend)
<Whiteknight> no, i gues that's mean
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<PerlJam> just call it albatross
<Whiteknight> I still don't see the problem with "Plumbhead", you don't need to know the complete etymology
<dalek> r28477 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Applying patch submitted by Packy Anderson in
<dalek> : http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=55910.
<dalek> : (Another YAPC::NA::2008 patch!)  On Darwin, export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET in
<dalek> : Makefile via config/init/hints/darwin.pm.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28477
<barney> Parakeet was once used for 'Forth'
<DietCoke> Here's a nifty goal for parrot 3.0; transcode HLL languages using PIR as an intermediate step.
<cotto_yapc> pmichaud++ #phonie
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<DietCoke> it is of course going to be about as useful as decompiling java bytecode.
<Whiteknight> I would love to write up a "make" implementation for Parrot eventually
<cotto_yapc> Whiteknight, Plumhead sounds like an insult.
<Whiteknight> cotto_yapc, I don't think it sounds particularly insulting
<PerlJam> Whiteknight: you farkin' plumhead!  
<PerlJam> Did that sound more insulting?  ;-)
<NotFound> You can call it: CWAIA Compiler With An Insulting Acronym.
<cotto_yapc> but that's not recursively insulting
<NotFound> Or follow the "Yet Another..." trend and cal it: Yet Another PHP Compiler.
<kid51> Who is at YAPC and is running OS X 10.5 on Intel?
<NotFound> cotto_yapc: CWARIA Compiler With A Recursive Insulting Acronym <-- Better?
<avar> kid51: half the conference?
<NotFound> The other half are drinking?
<kid51> Alas, not true.  There are many people on PPC, like myself.  I need to test a patch on that specific OS/chip combo.
<cotto_yapc> the other half are sober
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<barney> It would be nice to have something like a Parrot branding, like   C# and F#   IronPython and IronRuby   
<chromatic> AwesomePerl
<DietCoke> is perljam what michael jackson does whe... nevermind.
<cotto_yapc> win
<chromatic> AwesomeRuby
<PerlJam> :-PPP
<cotto_yapc> MoltingRuby
<chromatic> Yo!Ruby
<dalek> r28478 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [IMCC] Rewrote yet another algorithmically dubious loop in the register
<dalek> : allocator to loop through all symbolic registers in a compilation unit once,
<dalek> : not four times.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28478
<Eevee> squawkRuby
<chromatic> ICan'tBelieveIt'sNotRuby
<NotFound> barney: a kanji, to force all people to use unicode.
<chromatic> RubyPants
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<pmichaud> RakudoRuby?  RakudoPHP?
<cotto_yapc> 疜Ruby
<NotFound> Rubÿ
<cotto_yapc> pronounced the same as pmichaud's
<chromatic> UmlautRuby
<schmalbe> RubyInFeathers
<PerlJam> Puby
<Whiteknight> Plumbhead -> "Perl--"
<cotto_yapc> WingedRuby
<chromatic> Heh.  compilers/imcc/reg_alloc.c:1157 and :1166 and :1170
<NotFound> Or even better, design a parrot character and tell Unicode to standarize it.
<Eevee> there's not some sort of bird in unicode already?
<schmalbe> Let's take the snowman
<chromatic> Clive Barker's Ruby
<cjfields> Jack Ruby
<chromatic> Sirhan "Ruby" Sirhan
<NotFound> Ruby Tuesday
<cotto_yapc> chromatic, that's a perfectly cromulent color
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<Whiteknight> I like the "Winged" prefix, we could jam thjat on everything
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<Whiteknight> WingedRuby, WingedPHP, WingedPerl5
<Eevee> WingedPython
<NotFound> I like it.
<Eevee> sounds like a D&D critter
<Whiteknight> yeah, that works well too
<DietCoke> whee. got someone on #tcl on freenode downloading 0.6.3 and trying out partcl.
<Whiteknight> our WingedPython has +5 interoperability
<Eevee> ooh
<Eevee> "partcl" works really well
<Whiteknight> WingedTcl would go well too
<chromatic> Winged for your protection?
<cotto_yapc> Coke++ #fresh brains
<NotFound> Whiteknight: and a -8 againts tabs.
<Whiteknight> I also liked pmichaud's idea of Plumbhead -> "Phonie"
<Eevee> hahaha
<chromatic> Absolut Ruby
<DietCoke> firefox 3 available for download.
<schmalbe> We winged WingedWMLScript
<Eevee> DietCoke: what do linux users do
<Eevee> just download it and delete the tarball?
<DietCoke> ??
<Eevee> apt kinda updates firefox for me
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<Eevee> so I don't NEED to download it
<DietCoke> no clue. =-)
% kid51 has joined #parrot
<DietCoke> NICE>
<DietCoke> I downloaded the 3.0 FF setup. run it. "file is corrupted"
<Eevee> ha
<Eevee> possibly related to their servers being completely hammered
<cotto_yapc> firefox--
<Eevee> well, this is interesting.  I've found a website that won't let me log in with either elinks or LWP, but works fine in firefox with no flash or js
<cotto_yapc> user agent?
<purl> user agent is some lame ass spider app
<cotto_yapc> forget user agent
<purl> cotto_yapc: I forgot user agent
<Eevee> would they really disable for specific UAs server-side?
<Eevee> will change fx's though
<Eevee> and see what happens
<dalek> r28479 | chromatic++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [IMCC] Updated register allocation used register stacks to persist across
<dalek> : individual SymReg scans, which I accidentally left out of r28478.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28479
<Eevee> oh, nevermind, DOES work in elinks.  I guess they're just doing something weird I'm missing with my fake request
<DietCoke> Eevee: there is no update path to 3 atm.
<Eevee> DietCoke: yes, but I have rc1, rc2 only has a handful of bugfixes, and rc2 is final
<Eevee> not really worth the hassle of dumping the tarball somewhere and trying to make it use ubuntu's conventions for profile dir etc
% smash has joined #parrot
<smash> hello everyone
% schmalbe has left schmalbe!~bernhard@dslb-084-058-123-152.pools.arcor-ip.net
<dalek> r28480 | cotto++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Copy/pasta documentation on commandline_banner and commandline_prompt from pdd29.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28480
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<Tene> U+169B OGHAM FEATHER MARK (᚛)
<Tene> ᚛ruby
<Tene> ᚛php
<NotFound> Pronounced as "winged"?
<Tene> Sure.
<Tene> apparently it's used to mark the beginning of text.
% kid51 has left kid51!kid51@feather.perl6.nl
% cognominal has left cognominal!~cognomina@82.67.232.89
<smash> chromatic: had to revert your change to packdumo.c (http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28462)
<Tene> or perhaps "feathered ruby"
% kid51 has joined #parrot
<kid51> pmichaud's 2nd talk has begun
<smash> are they video recording the talks ?
<kid51> smash: don't know
<NotFound> I like "winged" better.
<kid51> ... but slides will be available
<kid51> Want to ask any questions?
<Tene> Sure, winged is good.
<smash> kid51: nah, i'll check the slides later
<Tene> U+C719 HANGUL SYLLABLE WING (윙)
% cognominal has joined #parrot
<Tene> hmm
<Tene> the ogham feather mark comes in pairs...
<kid51> smash:  Can you email me at jkeenan at cpan dot org with the problem in t/steps/init_hints-04.t you saw this morning?
<Tene> ᚛ruby᚜ -- one feather on each side
<smash> kid51: sure, the problem was on windows tho
<kid51> I don't have your email address and want to mail you a diagnostic patch.
<smash> i just skipped (or todoed) the test because of release
<smash> let me fire up windows virtual box
<smash> you can email me:  smash at cpan dot org
<Juerd> Tene: ᚜ this looks like a perl 6 qw list ᚛
<NotFound> The ogham is easier to draw.
<Juerd> Tene: What's the purpose of your unicode exploring?
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<Tene> Juerd: an earlier discussion about names, someone suggested proposing a "parrot" character to unicode
<NotFound> Juerd: we try to beat the # of CLI languages.
<DietCoke> packy++ OSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET
<cotto_yapc> smash, the talks are being recorded
<DietCoke> tcl: puts packy++
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[packy++␤]
<Juerd> Tene: Names for what?
<smash> cotto_yapc: great, thks
<Juerd> NotFound: I don't understand.
<NotFound> Juerd: like C# et al
<Tene> Juerd: the conversation contained a suggestion that a common "branding" in the names of parrot-hosted languages would be nice, in the style of ironruby, ironpython, c#, f#, etc.
<dalek> r28481 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [RELEASE]
<dalek> : update LANGUAGES_STATUS.pod from languages-smoke results
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28481
<Juerd> Aha
% limbic has joined #parrot
<DietCoke> tcl: for {set i 0} {$i<4} {incr i} {puts packy++}
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[packy++␤packy++␤packy++␤packy++␤]
<Tene> one suggestion was "winged", aka "winged ruby", "winged python", etc.
<confound> tcl me elmo
<Juerd> Unicode characters are *hard to type*
<confound> "Flying"
<DietCoke> tene,Juerd: that is not an unreasonable idea. "winged" isn't going to win. =-)
<Juerd> That is, the nicer ones. :)
<kid51> smash : Just sent mail.
<Tene> sarcastically, the obvious solution is to also support the ascii version: >-ruby-<
% chromatic has joined #parrot
<DietCoke> Tcl already did this. the prefix is "par". =-)
<Khisanth> DietCoke: unless someone convince the makers of Red Bull to start sponsoring Parrot developement? :)
<Tene> paruby
<Tene> hm
<DietCoke> parperl!
<NotFound> That way we also show our commitment with full unicode support.
<dalek> r28482 | fperrad++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [RELEASE]
<dalek> : update LANGUAGES_STATUS.pod from manual tests
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28482
<cotto_yapc> parphp
<confound> parboiled
<Whiteknight> parhip
<chromatic> RomeroPHP
<confound> parsnip
<DietCoke> particle.
<purl> The most abundant particle in the universe is the moron. or spin 1/2, charge 2/3 or jerry gay
<DietCoke> (oh, wait.)
<DietCoke> particle is also a boson.
<purl> okay, DietCoke.
<DietCoke> particle is also a bozon.
<purl> okay, DietCoke.
<chromatic> What flavor borson?
<confound> borshton
<DietCoke> neopolitan.
<Tene> particle is also a bogon
<purl> okay, Tene.
<PerlJam> borgon?
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<Juerd> Tene: I like the single thing, >-
<Juerd> Tene: It has a nice "greater than" connotation :D
<Tene> Me too.
<DietCoke> kid51: when you forward a message to RT, do you go through and change the people so it looks like it was submitted by the original submitter? (kind of a PITA but helps tracking later.)
<DietCoke> cracker? polly? uncaged?
<DietCoke> Tcl Uncaged.
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<rjbs> So.  At some point I wasn't supposed to 'make install' because the installed parrot didn't work right.
<rjbs> Is that still true?
<cotto_yapc> yes
<DietCoke> chromatic sez it's fixed.
<DietCoke> We could use a canary.
<confound> psitta-
<confound> psittatcl
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<confound> psittaruby
<DietCoke> if you're brave, go ahead. If not, avoid it.
<rjbs> I'm brave.  I mean, what's the worst that could happen?
<kid51> DietCoke: Is there some way to do that other than just copy editing?  (This is not something that happens very often.)
<tewk> where can I read docs about debuggin a actions.pm?
<cotto_yapc> computer 'splode
<confound> * rjbs has quit (eaten by Cthulhu)
<DietCoke> kid51: I think you have to go into the People section on the ticket.
<silug> fwiw, i'd *love* to leave yapc with a working, installable fedora parrot package
<DietCoke> I've done it for a few of those.
<DietCoke> silug: that would be nice, yes.
<PerlJam> rjbs: I've run "make install" on feather and no one seems to have noticed.
<silug> if anyone felt like sitting with me for a bit to help, i'd appreciate it
<Tene> Aren't there some spec files?
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<DietCoke> you coming to the workshop tomorrow? =-)
<tewk> I'm getting a "No result object" exception
<silug> Tene: the last one i saw was mine.  :)
<silug> DietCoke: if that would be the place to work on it, then most likely, yes
* Tene tries the 'make rpm' target.
<NotFound> Talking about charsets, is there some way of specifying the charset and enconding of pir files?
<kid51> DietCoke: So how should I modify this page:  http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/ModifyPeople.html?id=55954
<silug> i wanted to come to the hackathon, but i couldn't get away from work earlier
<DietCoke> You can probably also find me later today after presentations are over.
<NotFound> We actually have several .t files with latin-1 chars.
<chromatic> They're passionate.
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<DietCoke> I've been deleting myself as the creator, and adding in the original mailer's email addy as a requestor.
<confound> DietCoke: stop deleting yuorself, you'll go blind
<DietCoke> You can leave yourself as a cc, or a requestor, that's fine, but I think it's good to add the original sender as one of the requestors.
<limbic> jhorwitz: Could the our $vars in the mod_parrot / mod_perl6 have been changed to state variables? 
* DietCoke hurls http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/index.html for confound
<DietCoke> ROODE++
<jhorwitz> limbic: state variables?
<confound> jhorwitz: state $foo = 1
* limbic hunts for a synopsis to point to
<silug> DietCoke: i *might* need to go pick my wife up, but if not, if you didn't mind working with me a bit after the presentations, that would be *fantastic*
<cotto_yapc> they're lexical, except that they keep their values when they go out of scope for the next time they're in scope again
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<limbic> jhorwitz: but I think if they work in mod env, they would be better for your slides than our
<cotto_yapc> (afaict)
<jhorwitz> hm, i like
<limbic> oh, you found them
<jhorwitz> i liked cotto's description.  :)
<DietCoke> silug: I am just a parrot guy; if you are a <whatever os that was> guy, we should be ok.
<limbic> I was going to ask during your talk - but didn't want to sound like an idiot
<DietCoke> limbic: it doesn't stop any of us.
<jhorwitz> amen
<DietCoke> ESPECIALLY horwitz.
<PerlJam> DietCoke: so ... you're not a tcl guy  :)
* silug is a fedora guy
<DietCoke> PerlJam: oh, no.
<limbic> well - I was one of the few people who didn't raise their hand for using mod_parrot - I hate the web afterall
<jhorwitz> DietCoke hurts us
<DietCoke> WHAT HAS IT GOTS IN ITZ POCKETZES?
<confound> he's very tlcclish
<confound> gah, lag
<jhorwitz> limbic: just don't confuse me with someone who knows perl6  ;-)
<smash> kid51: test still fails on windows, and i didn't get your mail yet
<cotto_yapc> unicode-flavored lag
<DietCoke> I used to be so tickleish I'd fall over. thankfully I seem to be mostly immune these days.
<limbic> jhorwitz: well, if it will work - that would be better
* jhorwitz wonders if it's even in rakudo...
<limbic> I am pretty sure the answer is yes
<kid51> smash:  No, I didn't patch trunk or fix anything.  I only sent you a patch to apply, run, and then send me the output.
* Tene discovers again that optimized build segfaults on 64-bit
<limbic> I remember a use.perl post where the various implementations of state was compared and rakudo had the best
* limbic looks
<DietCoke> tene: if it hurts...
<kid51> smash:  check for mail from jkeen at verizon dot net
<silug> Tene: that must have been my latest problem
<smash> kid51: ok, sometimes cpan forward is slow
<Tene> DietCoke: I usually don't build optimized, but that's the default for the rpm I'm trying to build.
* jhorwitz found the synopsis (S04)
<silug> Tene: where's this rpm you are trying to build?
<Tene> silug: there's a specfile in the repo.
<silug> oh, right...  that was mine the last time i looked.
<silug> it sort of worked
<Tene> does it not work?
<limbic> found the use.perl article - pasting in a sec
<NotFound> Tene: you have a backtrace?
<silug> but doesn't at the moment
<Tene> NotFound: no, I don't.
<limbic> http://use.perl.org/~nicholas/journal/36270
<limbic> I misremebered
<limbic> it is perl 5.10.0 that has it working
<limbic> not rakudo
<Tene> silug: I can probably hack on it with you in a bit.  Would be nice to have some fedora packages.
* limbic shuts up now
<Tene> Well, it built fine, and I have a parrot and parrot-languages package here...
<silug> Tene: yeah, that was my spec.  it's been hacked on a bit.
<silug> that's what i did at the last chicago yapc.  :)
<rjbs> t/examples/library.t                       (Wstat: 256 Tests: 4 Failed: 1) Failed test:  3
<rjbs> :(
<rjbs> #          got: ''
<rjbs> #     expected: 'asdf =~ /as/
<Tene> silug: seems to work fine for me.  Can you tell me what the problems are?
<purl> the problems are things like setting up relationships, writing templates, and so on.
<silug> Tene: well the last problem was the segfault with optimization on
<silug> i'm trying a rebuild now to see where i'm at
<cotto_yapc> perl6: sub foo(){state $i;}
<polyglotbot> OUTPUT[Null PMC access in type()␤current instr.: 'parrot;Perl6;Grammar;Actions;scope_declarator' pc 99776 (src/gen_actions.pir:5050)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;scope_declarator' pc 66699 (src/gen_grammar.pir:19284)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;noun' pc 60207
<polyglotbot> ..(src/gen_grammar.pir:17028)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar...
<cotto_yapc> perl6: sub foo(){my $i;}
<polyglotbot> RESULT[{ ... }]
<silug> and this laptop isn't all that fast
<Tene> might we want a separate package for each language?
% jhorwitz has left jhorwitz!~chatzilla@209.9.237.164
<DietCoke> particle: do we really need to leave 43757 open?
<Tene> Or would that be unnecessary?
<silug> Tene: that would be the right thing to do
<DietCoke> (crap, he's not her)
<DietCoke> (here)
% jhorwitz has joined #parrot
<silug> w00t, it's running tests now
<confound> just poke him on the shoulder
* DietCoke doesn't want to be rude(r to patrick than normal)
<confound> I mean to get him to get back on irc
<limbic> why?
% Whiteknight has joined #parrot
<limbic> how long has target=past worked?
<Tene> limbic: quite a while
<confound> soon you'll be able to do --target=future
<jhorwitz> Tene: much interest in mod_lolcode today.  :)
<confound> next year's Parrot talks will include: Trivial Time Travel with --target
<limbic> Tene - pmichaud's live demo is the first time I have seen it
<limbic> nice
<NotFound> python has something like import from future.
<Tene> perl6.past: say 'foo'
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 past paste" (49 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13300
* Tene points limbic at the extra options to polyglotbot
<limbic> thanks
<Tene> perl6.parse: say 'foo
<Tene> perl6.pir: say 'foo
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 parse paste" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13301
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 pir paste" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13302
<Tene> perl6.paste: say 'foo
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 paste" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13303
<DietCoke> silug: you going to the yapc dinner?
<DietCoke> silug: I will not be, and will probably be sitting out in the lounge near the auditorium.
<DietCoke> (for some small time.)
<dalek> r28483 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] writing initial sweep routines for non-pmc header pools. 
<dalek> : * Rename a few functions
<dalek> : * Partial redo of pool iteration code
<dalek> : * A lot of this will be optimized away, eventually.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28483
<DietCoke> I am very sad at how much PIR is required to make tcl's [expr 3+4] work vs. the example that patrick just showed.
<cotto_yapc> tcl.pir: 3+4
<purl> 7
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "tcl pir paste" (4 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13304
<Tene> tcl.pir: [expr 3+4]
<nopaste> "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "tcl pir paste" (4 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13305
<silug> DietCoke: i am planning on going
<DietCoke> tcl isn't an hllcompiler compiler.
<DietCoke> atm, you have to use --pir on the command line.
<Tene> ah
<silug> but there will be an hour between presentations and the dinner, right?
<kid51> rjbs: Could not reproduce your test failure in t/examples/library.t.
<Tene> DietCoke: it's running on feather.  feel free to fix it if you like.
<DietCoke> something like that.
<DietCoke> tene; nah. 
<rjbs> I'll re-run.
* DietCoke reruns the official tcl test suite to see what's what.
<rjbs> kid51: If this fails again, is there a way to submit relevant information about my system, the failure, etc?
<kid51> Replication from RT to newsgroup is  slow
% bacek has joined #parrot
<kid51> Yes.  The parrotbug utility will pick up that info and report it.
<DietCoke> (as long as you're not on windows.)
% Auzon has joined #parrot
<confound> parrotblog
<purl> parrotblog is a place where people can blog about parrot that isn't use.perl (i.e., some parrot news might not be appropriate for a perl-only forum, or perhaps should have a larger reach)
<confound> oops
<kid51> It's available in top-level parrot dir once you've configure (I think)
<kid51> What system were you on?
<smash> DietCoke: (tcl) t/cmd_lsort.t fails
<dalek> r28484 | chromatic++ | reg_alloc_fix:
<dalek> : Created register allocator fix local branch.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28484
<DietCoke> smash: not exactly.
<DietCoke> all tests pass, then you get an inferior runloop issue.
<DietCoke> which hopefully will go away once pdd25cx comes back to trunk.
<smash> [oops; continuation 0xb704624c of type 21 is trying to jump from runloop 12345 to runloop 1]
<chromatic> Er, that shouldn't have happened.
<DietCoke> chromatic: it's been happening for ages.
<chromatic> I meant r28484.
<dalek> r28485 | chromatic++ | reg_alloc_fix:
<dalek> : [IMCC] Added a sets member to SymReg struct.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28485
<chromatic> and r28485.
<DietCoke> you didn't mean to commit those? ah.
<chromatic> I meant to make a local branch.
<DietCoke> branches are easily deletable.
<DietCoke> keeeeeeeeel it.
<smash> kid51: still no mail, send it again but this time to: mestre dot smash at gmail dot com
<silug> so apparently my wife wants to come to the banquet, so i have to leave to get her
<DietCoke> silug: ok.
<DietCoke> perhaps after, or online. I'm flexible.
<DietCoke> And there are MANY parroteers here.
<DietCoke> or, as we call them, crackers.
<smash> still having problems building parrot on fedora ?
<chromatic> 64-bit Fedora?
<smash> and what version of fedora ?
<dalek> r28486 | chromatic++ | reg_alloc_fix:
<dalek> : Removed a public branch which is in the wrong location and should have been a
<dalek> : local branch only anyway.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28486
<kid51> smash :  sent
% limbic has left limbic!limbic@feather.perl6.nl
<smash> kid51: got it, the patch does not seem complete tho
<smash> (the file i mean)
<smash> let me try a manual patch
<kid51> smash:  correct.  I was trying diff rather than svn diff.  But all I wanted to do was add those print statements.
<rjbs> sent in my report.
<smash> nopaste?
<clunker3> http://pasta.test-smoke.org/ or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/
<purl> nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl
<kid51> patch -p0 t/steps/init_hints-04.t < diff.for.smash.txt
<kid51> rjbs:  thanks, we'll get it whenever perl.org catches up.
<rjbs> groovy
<rjbs> I look forward to squawking :)
<dalek> r28487 | particle++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [abc] whitespace update in grammar file
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28487
<nopaste> "smash" at 82.154.75.155 pasted "kid51, is this what you wanted to see ?" (39 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13306
<kid51> smash:  Yes.  Examining it now.
<kid51> As I expected, a Win32 path separator problem.  I thought catfile avoided that problem.
<smash> i didn't have tiem to look at it.. i just maked it TODO
<kid51> Oh, wait, I remember a case where particle fixed a test like this.
* kid51 researches
<cotto_yapc> pmichaud, you know you want it
% chromatic has left chromatic!~chromatic@209.9.237.164
<DietCoke> -_O
% chromatic has joined #parrot
<kid51> smash:  Sent second patch:  Trying \Q  \E
% jjore is now known as zz_jjore
% zz_jjore is now known as jjore
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<smash> kid51: ok, checking
<dalek> r28488 | coke++ | tcl_pct:
<dalek> : Create branch to work on converting tcl to PCT
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28488
<nopaste> "smash" at 82.154.75.155 pasted "kid51,with 2nd patch applied" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13307
<kid51> smash:  So it worked, correct?
<smash> yes, i think
<dalek> r28489 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Account for Win32 path separators in one test per report from smash.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28489
<smash> kid51: great, one less ticket to file
<smash> kid51++
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<dalek> r28490 | coke++ | tcl_pct:
<dalek> : [tcl]
<dalek> : Begin conversion with a clean slate. We can always do an svn copy back from
<dalek> : trunk for the files we wish to keep in our implementation.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28490
% cotto_yapc has left cotto_yapc!~cotto@209.9.237.164
<kid51> How do I disconnect cleanly in irssi?
<DietCoke> slash quit ?
<Infinoid> /disconnect
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<dalek> r28491 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src/gc] Add some basic function-level documentation as per RT#48260. More is needed, but I've covered the basics.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28491
<smash> i'm off
* smash wavez
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<dalek> r28492 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src/gc] Add some basic function-level documentation to src/gc/memory.c as per RT#48260. More is needed, but I've covered the basics.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28492
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<dalek> r28493 | japhb++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [CAGE] Add .git directory to MANIFEST.SKIP, to quiet 'make manitest' for git-svn users
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28493
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<apeiron> Parrot 0.6.3 (and svn HEAD) are unable to build on Mac OS X Leopard (perhaps others) using Macports. Preliminary investigation (with help from several people at YAPC::NA) reveals that it's related to universal vs. non-universal libraries in Macports. Can anyone with Macports and one of: readline, openssl, libiconv *not* compiled as universal reproduce?
<apeiron> Just wiped out all of my installed ports, it built against system versions of things, and is happy--so it's definitely related to conflicts from Universal vs. non-Universal libs in Macports (which AFAIK defaults to non-Universal).
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<Whiteknight> apeiron, have you filed a bug about this?
<apeiron> Whiteknight, Will get that in presently.
<Whiteknight> okay, excellent. I don't know the macport, so I want to make sure other people hear about this
<omega> apeiron: how do I check if I have universal or non-universal of the given ports?
<apeiron> omega, port installed | ack portname
<apeiron> s/ack/grep/ as appropriate
<apeiron> omega, If it doesn't say Universal, it isn't--I think. Not entirely certain.
<omega> ok
<omega> I have all 3
<omega> not universal
<omega> or it doesn't say universal
<apeiron> Those three if they don't say it definitely aren't, at least with my version of MacPorts.
<apeiron> Whiteknight, http://bugs6.perl.org/perl6/ says to send mail to parrotbug@parrotcode.org to report a bug. Is that a list I'd need to subscribe to?
<omega> rt-que I think
<omega> at least thats what was said in the talks
<Whiteknight> no, it's not a list. Just send an email there, put "[BUG]" at the beginning of the subject so it get filed correctly
<apeiron> Okay, will do.
<Whiteknight> thanks!
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<apeiron> Oddly, I tried building parrot 0.6.3 on another machine with a similar config (Leopard, Macports, non-universal readline et al) installed and it's working. /me is curious
<Infinoid> any differences in the output of Configure.pl on those two machines?
<tetragon> What's the issue?
<purl> the issue is not typing the key, it's making the remote server DTRT
<apeiron> tetragon, On this machine, without universal builds of things in Macports, parrot 0.6.3 fails to build with complaints about various files being fat binaries.
<tetragon> Which OS X and CPU type?
<apeiron> They're both 10.5.3 and Intel.
<tetragon> Have you tried the patch in http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52214
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<Infinoid> purl, forget the issue
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<purl> Infinoid: I forgot issue
<japhb> Infinoid: How are your OpenGL troubles?
<apeiron> I'll have to rebuild the stuff as non-universal since I started ripping it all out as a temp workaround figuring the other machine would reproduce the issue.
<apeiron> (but it doesn't, oddly0
<tetragon> Have you tried the patch?
<apeiron> Will be doing that once I can, yes.
<apeiron> (but haven't yet, no)
<tetragon> And as to the boxes, which Perl 5 are you using?  Apple-built or self-built?
<tetragon> (Yes, it makes a difference on 10.5)
<tetragon> (self-built is less likely to trigger the -arch flag issues with fat binaries and parrot)
<apeiron> hrm, actually, I think the laptop which shows the fail is running the system perl...
<apeiron> The system that isn't seeing the problem is a Macports 5.10.
<tetragon> Use the patch
<tetragon> It will fix your problems
<tetragon> When it fixes it, comment in the ticket that it did
<apeiron> heh, okay. Will do.
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* tetragon is trying to get an Intel OS X 10.5 user to say it works
* tetragon has PPC OS X 10.5
<japhb> Can any Mac OS X people take a gander at RT #55950?  Packy appears to be getting a weird error trying to link with his libz, but he says that it goes away if he disables OpenGL in Configure, which mystifies me.
<tetragon> Just as soon as I prepare today's tree
<dalek> r28494 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src/gc] Add some basic function-level documentation to src/gc/smallobject.c as per RT#48260. More is needed, but I've covered the basics.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28494
<japhb> tetragon: prepare today's tree?
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<tetragon> japhb: I keep one tree always clean, and every day (that I do a build) create a copy that gets built on
<japhb> tetragon: why?  Trying to avoid having to do a fresh checkout ever?
<tetragon> Fresh checkouts are slow on my box
<japhb> Ah.
<apeiron> tetragon, My box with the Macports perl works fine.
<apeiron> (5.10)
<tetragon> One of the networks I spend time on took a couple hours to do typical checkouts
<japhb> ewww
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<tetragon> That's the network my Intel box is on
<tetragon> I grew used to carrying trees and patches across on my laptop
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<tetragon> Looks 55950's reporter is having some issues with darwinports
<japhb> tetragon: Ah.  Wasn't this something that kid51 was just working on?
<japhb> (As in, over the last couple days?)
<tetragon> I'm thinking more in terms of the library side
* DietCoke hides out in his room, briefly.
<tetragon> That's a plain old linker error
<japhb> So what does that have to do with OpenGL?  Or do you think he ate a red herring?
<tetragon> He may also have an OpenGL install through darwinports
<DietCoke> the error I saw this weekend was gl related.
<tetragon> But that ticket doesn't have the real details that I would need
<japhb> Ah.  Hmmm.
<japhb> DietCoke: hmmm what?
<DietCoke> packy's error.
<japhb> DietCoke: Packy is the one we're talking about.
<DietCoke> The last time I saw it (not the one in the ticket, on his console), it looked opengl related.
<DietCoke> japhb: Yes. That's why I chimed in.
<japhb> ah, IRConfusion
<tetragon> The one in the ticket looks like he managed to screw up his darwinports tree
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<japhb> Can darwinports supports be configured away?  Like '--without-darwinports' or somesuch?
<tetragon> japhb: sudo rm -rf /opt/local
<japhb> LOL
<DietCoke> that's helpful! =-)
<japhb> I see.
<DietCoke> you could, say, have him eschew adding those library directories. (by explicitly specifying the lib and include paths to configure)
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<DietCoke> I am wondering why you say it looks like he screwed up his darwinports, though.
<DietCoke> you think a permissions issue on the libz1.dylib?
<tetragon> Or it doesn't exist there
<DietCoke> ok. *must* it exist there?
<japhb> DietCoke: wouldn't the darwinports dirs just be added back in by the _handle_darwin_for_macports hacks?
<tetragon> That is where darwinports install it
<DietCoke> yes, but does it -always- install it?
<DietCoke> or just based on certain packages?
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<japhb> *lightbulb*
<tetragon> How do you use darwinports again?
<tetragon> I have a minor amount of stuff from it left on my box, and that includes libz
<DietCoke> "port"
<japhb> I bet I know why he thinks it's OpenGL related -- because config::auto::opengl is one of the four steps that calls _handle_darwin_for_* .  Thus, with OpenGL disabled, he might not trip over that problem.
<tetragon> My box can't find the manpage
<DietCoke> There. There's an excellent reason for us to rip those methods out.
<japhb> You'll get no argument from me.
<DietCoke> I added a note about his config options. Those were the only options that worked on osx ppc for some time.
<DietCoke> (modulo optimize)
<tetragon> Which options?
<purl> Which options are you talking about?
<DietCoke> tetragon: 'port'
<japhb> Is there any sane reason for a Mac OS X user to *not* use the Apple-supplied OpenGL and GLUT frameworks if they want OpenGL?
<tetragon> I normally don't pass Configure.pl any options
<DietCoke> I would not claim to support such a config.
<DietCoke> tetragon: do you have osx ppc?
<tetragon> Yes
<DietCoke> what os rev?
<tetragon> 10.5.2
<DietCoke> that may be why.
<tetragon> It's what most of my builds have been on
<DietCoke> I've been with parrot since 2001 or so, and those options were the only way I ever found to build on older boxen.
<tetragon> And what are those options?
<DietCoke> ... they're in the ticket. =-)
<DietCoke>  CC="gcc-4.0" CX="g++-4.0" perl Configure.pl -- 
<DietCoke> > > cc="$CC" --cxx="$CX" --link="$CX" --ld="$CX"
<DietCoke> I was adding 'ccache' in there as well at one point.
<DietCoke> could probably be resolved by a clever edit of the hints file.
<DietCoke> ISTR the link/ld were the important ones.
<tetragon> My 10.4 box doesn't need that
<DietCoke> again, what version of 10.4? is it post-introduction of intel?
<DietCoke> could also be tied to the version of XCode.
<tetragon> Have you set the environment variable to set the OS X version to build for?
<DietCoke> he submitted a patch for that, yes.
<DietCoke> I should note, I don't build on osx ppc much at all anymore. I primarily use strawberry perl, linux, or osx/86
<DietCoke> But osx/ppc (10.3, 10.4) used to be my primary dev env.
<tetragon> And he hasn't played with gcc-select (IIRC) to change the system to defaulting to gcc 4 instead of gcc 3?
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<DietCoke> perhaps he has. that was irrelevant to the issue of needing to specify the link/ld flags.
<tetragon> (My 10.4 box is not where I am)
<DietCoke> and I am not where packy is.
<japhb> OK, lemme see if I understand the concept of the _handle_darwin_for_* calls -- each time we try to autodetect a library that could be system or could be a fink or darwinports install, we check to see if the header file for that library exists in the fink/ports locations.  If so, we add compile/link flags for fink/darwinports.  Correct?
<tetragon> My box didn't have any difficulties building
<tetragon> Just the usual stack of deprecation warnings
<DietCoke> tetragon: I understand this. Please believe me when I tell you ours did.
<DietCoke> japhb: we seem to just add library path and include path info.
<DietCoke> rather than adding it once when we do the intial detection. instead, we are there saving it off into separate config vars.
<japhb> So this sounds like our handling of fink/darwinports tries to be too magical.  Shouldn't we just be giving the user a Configure.pl option or two that allows them to decide to add those lib/include paths or not?
<DietCoke> my recommendation on this was to just, if we find those directories, add them to the normal -L and -I listings. then eschew any further work down the road.
<japhb> DietCoke: nod
<DietCoke> I think adding those paths if on OS X is not entirely evil.
<dalek> r28495 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [src/gc] Add some basic function-level documentation to src/gc/resources.c as per RT#48260. More is needed, but I've covered the basics.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28495
<DietCoke> But I would have little problem with forcing users to specify non-standard paths. it's just that these are semi-standard.
<japhb> But there should be a separate config::auto step for detecting them, that the user can override, rather than each random library step running the detection on its own in a non-overrideable fashion
<japhb> bah, have to go AFK.  Will backlog.
<DietCoke> japhb: yes yes yes
<DietCoke> tetragon: replied to packy's ticket with a request to retest sans the extra options now that we have the DEPLOY var set by default.
<DietCoke> ... trying to, but rt sux.
<tetragon> DietCoke: I'm trying a build with libz.1.dylib removed from the remains of darwinports
<tetragon> Hrm... the error in the ticket wasn't even during the build of OpenGL-related code
<tetragon> And my box didn't have darwinports in the include list for things like subproxy.bundle even though Configure.pl found it
<DietCoke> tetragon: no, but the supposition is that not disabling opengl support causes that dir to be checked and added.
<DietCoke> ... which then borks something later down the line.
<DietCoke> Iunno.
<tetragon> And I didn't disable OpenGL support
<tetragon> My parrot build didn't link againsts anything in darwinports
<tetragon> With the exception of my ICU build, everything comes with OS X 10.5
<tetragon> (I don't have readline)
<japhb> tetragon: My reading is that he had *something* GL related in his darwinports.  config::auto::opengl noticed it, and added darwinports to the paths.  But the code that does that adds the top level of darwinports, and it gets added as default flags for compile and link of all of parrot.  So if there is some non-OpenGL-related breakage in his darwinports, it would show up in a different compile step.  So enabling OpenGL was just a trigger, b
<japhb> ecause it enabled linking to darwinports, which blew his compile to heck.
<tetragon> I'm part of the way through testing that theory (using GMP instead of OpenGL)
<japhb> nodnod
<japhb> cool
<tetragon> I have a GMP build that parrot cannot currently use as the configure step doesn't understand frameworks
<tetragon> For the opengl step to trigger, all that would be required is the presence of /opt/local/include/GL/glut.h
<japhb> sounds right.
<tetragon> I'm just using GMP instead of OpenGL for this test
<japhb> nod
<tetragon> Well, I'm still not getting the error from ld (probably because nothing that parrot would touch here makes use of (the excised) libz from darwinports)
<tetragon> But it does result in /opt/local/foo being included in the c++ lines
<tetragon> Hrm...
<tetragon> My understanding of the lines in config::auto::opengl is that it will /never/ use any fink or darwinports OpenGL install, always the system frameworks
<tetragon> But it will still add the fink or darwinport file locations if it finds GL/glut.h
<DietCoke> ... that doesn't sound right.
<tetragon> Which results in parrot using other libraries from darwinports
<tetragon> Ones that don't have _handle_foo lines in their steps
<tetragon> OS X doesn't supply OpenSSL 0.9.8, but it's being detected through the handle_foo of GMP
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<dalek> r28496 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : remove old XXX comment; doesn't hurt to have the coda here.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28496
<dalek> r28497 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [codingstd]
<dalek> : Fix some codingstd tests and a typo.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28497
<dalek> r28498 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] Creating a basic GCAccess DYNPMC that we can use to access the GC internals from high-level code. This is probably just temporary for testing stuff.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28498
<tetragon> DietCoke: What doesn't sound right, what the step does on OS X?  Unless you explicitly disable it (or possibly on the server variant of OS X, haven't checked there) it will always pass using the system framework GL.
<tetragon> Sticking a copy of GMP into darwinports gets Configure.pl to detect gettext, something that is only installed via darwinports on my box
<tetragon> Removing that set of GMP, but creating an empty GL/glut.h causes parrot to still find darwinports installs of libraries
<tetragon> s/parrot/configure.pl/
<DietCoke> tetragon: I'd recommend working more directly with packy to try to resolve the issue.
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<DietCoke> I am simplifying the FAQ.
<DietCoke> anyone care to proffer a one paragraph summary of why we're using register over stack?
<Whiteknight> I could take a stab at it, what's it for?
<dalek> r28499 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
<dalek> : [gsoc_pdd09] A few small fixes, updates, and a new method for the GCAccess PMC.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28499
<DietCoke> "the faq"
<DietCoke> docs/faq.pod
<DietCoke> There's way too much old cruft in it, trying to cleanse it.
<Whiteknight> let me throw down a basic draft now, we can improve on my words later if needed.
<DietCoke> danke. I may simply remove the section entirely and then you can proffer a suggestion and add it back in. =-)
<Whiteknight> i could make a commit on it within 5 minutes if you want, or I could ship you a patch or something
<Whiteknight> I'm basically just revising and improving the stuff that is already there
<Whiteknight> actually, a lot of the stuff there was pretty good already, I think. Room for some improvements, but the gist is nice
<japhb> tetragon: OK, sounds like our hunches were correct.  And that the whole way of handling fink and darwinports is fu.
<japhb> The problem is that each config step thinks locally and acts globally.
<japhb> Simply doing a global detection and application of fink or darwinports would be wrong too.
<japhb> A user needs to specify their preferred order for looking for libs and includes, and we need to respect that.  We can still do per-step detection of whether fink, darwinports, or system actually has support for a given package or not, but that only should act to knock that option out of the running if it doesn't support that package.  And the compile/link options need to DTRT per lib.
<japhb> Bleah.
<japhb> Configure and build are hard.  Let's go shopping.
<Whiteknight> (go shopping)++
<tetragon> Bah, shopping is hard, let's do math
<Whiteknight> math++
<japhb> heh
* Whiteknight is easy to please
* tetragon vastly prefers math to shopping
<japhb> I'd have to agree with tetragon, actually.  Math is much easier than shopping.
<Whiteknight> Depends on the math, i've never been a fan of partial diff-eq
<japhb> OK, here's another wrench in the works.  Compiling individual object files against different sets of headers than the link uses for libs would be bad.  So how do we respect the user's wishes per-package, when the whole thing gets linked into the parrot shared lib ...?
<japhb> grrr, unintentional resend
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<japhb> Whiteknight: that depends on what the shopping equivalent is.
<japhb> Perhaps it would be finding something that doesn't look absolutely aweful on you at an expensive NY boutique?
<japhb> In which case, I submit that partial diffeq are still easier.
<japhb> er awful
<Whiteknight> touche
<tetragon> aweful, awful, what's the difference once you hit high fashion?
<DietCoke> Whiteknight: committed.
<purl> The chicken is involved, but the pig is *committed*.
<DietCoke> feel free to add back in a small note. I may edit it mercilessly, though. =-)
<dalek> r28500 | coke++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [docs]
<dalek> : Update the FAQ, eliminating a lot of old information, and update the tone
<dalek> : a bit.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28500
<Whiteknight> DietCoke, okay, I'll add in some stuff. You want me to keep it small?
<DietCoke> yes please.
<DietCoke> faq is not the place for unabashed rambling. =-)
<Whiteknight> but rambling is gooooooooood.
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<DietCoke> no no.
<DietCoke> if we need a rambling answer, it can go in docs/dev
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<Whiteknight> I'm looking at the diff, you were ruthless!
* tetragon notes that the Apple menu isn't the button that displays an 'X' when hovered over
<dalek> r28501 | coke++ | tcl_pct:
<dalek> : svn merge -r28489:28500 from trunk to the tcl_pct branch
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28501
<japhb> So noted, tetragon.  :-)
<japhb> Whiteknight: wow, you're not kidding
<Whiteknight> DietCoke, committed. Read and edit away
<Whiteknight> I'm also going to try to update docs/memory_internals.pod now
<dalek> r28502 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [docs] update FAQ to add a short, short, short blurb about why register-based is better then stack-based.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28502
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<DietCoke> Whiteknight: good, except I'd remove the "optimization line.
<DietCoke> I remain unconvinced that we can use the same optimization tricks with infinite registers.
<DietCoke> thanks for the writeup.
<dalek> r28503 | japhb++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [DOCS] Fix grammo in FAQ
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28503
<japhb> DietCoke: I think it's rather that the optimizations can be considered in their pure CompSci forms rather than having to face limits
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<spinclad> for any number of registers 0..^n, they are bounded by n...
<DietCoke> (modulo the bug where we can only really have 99 registers. =-)
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<japhb> spinclad: I was thinking more that for us, register allocation becomes a pure question of optimal caching algorithms for a fully associative cache of unknown size, rather than algorithms for handling register files of fixed size
<Whiteknight> DietCoke, that's fine you can edit it as much as you want. I was just trying to paraphrase the stuff that was in the longer-version
<DietCoke> Whiteknight++
<dalek> r28504 | japhb++ | trunk:
<dalek> : [OpenGL] Use iter opcode instead of new 'Iterator'
<dalek> : * OpenGL.pir: change instances of "new 'Iterator', foo" to "iter foo"
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28504
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<dalek> r28505 | coke++ | tcl_pct:
<dalek> : [tcl]
<dalek> : First cut from the language shell creator. No tcl specific information yet,
<dalek> : but we have a shell.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28505
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<dalek> r28506 | cotto++ | trunk:
<dalek> : Updated kjs' tutorial #1 to add pointer to the documentation for commandline_*, addressing #54694.
<dalek> : Also did some minor rewording for clarity.
<dalek> diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28506
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* DietCoke yawns.
* DietCoke seems to have been disconnected.
<DietCoke> piper?
<purl> i heard piper was the logbot for #parrot
<DietCoke> karma piper?
<purl> piper has neutral karma
<DietCoke> piper--
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<bacek_> hi everyone
<purl> Howdy, bacek_, you fantastic person you.
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<bacek_> purl: you are still example of stupid AI
<purl> ...but purl is a buggy piece of shit or a flooterbuck or a douchebag or an autonomic handjob system, well beyond the need for human intervention or a retard or a trannybot or a fuckslut in GumbyBRAIN's mind or going alone. or almost an anagram of Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenkordel or a perv or an auto-triage bot or a she or a smartass or the sixth beatle. or http://github.com\/dagbrown\/flooterbuck\/ or nvb...
<cotto_yapc> (ignoring piper)++
<bacek_> probably we don't need piper anymore.
<bacek_> moritz's bot is much better
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