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<chromatic> Who's here?
<allison> hi
<pmichaud> me!
<barney> me too
* particle is here
<tewk> just listening, really slow link here
<chromatic> Alright, let's begin.
<chromatic> Allison?
<allison> - I've been working on the release
<allison> - Including adding more pdd15 features, and bug fixing/ticket resolution
<allison> EOR
<barney> Trying to understand languages/lisp.
<barney> Adding some test cases for lisp
<barney> .eor
<chromatic> I fixed some bugs and added a few features.
<chromatic> My file of the week is src/hll.c, which I think is the source of Much Evil regarding Tcl.
<chromatic> I also poked at PDD15; it's close.
<chromatic> jonathan_?
<chromatic> particle?
<particle> ~ my first pass at refactoring Configure.pl to support cross-compilation has been committed to the 'reconfigure' branch
<particle> ~ continued hunding the pmc recycling bug that's causing segfaults on win32--no luck finding&fixing yet :(
<particle> ~ general cleanup
<particle> .end
<chromatic> pmichaud?
<pmichaud> longish report this week
<pmichaud> perl6 news:
<pmichaud> * === perl6 now passes all 01-sanity tests === (yippee!)
<pmichaud> * Thanks again to Coke++, chromatic++, Infinoid++, and others for this
<pmichaud> * Now we have to figure out what to do with Test.pm
<pmichaud> * Unfortunately, the 01-sanity tests are not sufficient to run the Test.pm that is in Pugs
<pmichaud> * There are a significant number of additional features needed
<pmichaud> * That leaves two options:
<pmichaud> *   (1) focus on getting Pugs' Test.pm to work
<pmichaud> *   (2) develop an interim Test.pm that may let us start working on other tests
<pmichaud> * I'm strongly in favor of doing both: get an interim Test.pm that allows people to start doing useful hacking on other parts of perl6, while also working towards getting Pugs' Test.pm to work
<pmichaud> * The goal would remain that both Pugs and perl6 will eventually share a common Test.pm (based on the Pugs version)
<pmichaud> * Also, a reminder -- which I'll also be sending to the mailing lists today -- that for the time being Pugs remains the primary repository for the tests.  So, people who want to hack on "Perl 6 test suite" should get a Pugs commit bit.
<pmichaud> * Inside Parrot, we'll use specialized make targets ('make spectest') to use svn to pull various Pugs test directories into a working perl6 tree.
<pmichaud>  
<pmichaud> Other news:
<pmichaud> * I've added the ability to use stub actions ( C< {*} > ) inside of grammar rules compiled by PGE, including those with comment tags ( C< #= foo > ) later on the source line.
<pmichaud> * When parsing source text, one can also pass an "action object" that provides methods to be invoked for each stub action in the grammar.
<pmichaud> * This is similar to the "pre-processing step" described in Perl-6.0.0-STD.pm, except the stub actions are determined at runtime instead of via actions pre-processed into the grammar rules.
<pmichaud> * I've also started building a mini-language called "nqp" (Not Quite Perl) that implements a very small subset of Perl 6
<pmichaud> * This language will be available for building the stub actions and performing parse tree -> PAST transformations, instead of using TGE.
<pmichaud> * nqp is similar in concept to fglock's mp6 and kp6 implementations, except it's focused/based on PAST-pm as the abstract syntax tree representation.
<pmichaud> * It's very likely the two efforts can merge in the very near future.
<pmichaud> * I'll first convert 'abc' to use nqp instead of TGE for PAST-pm generation, then invite design comments
<pmichaud>  
<pmichaud> Goals for the week:
<pmichaud> * Lots of messages to perl6-compiler and parrot-porters
<pmichaud> * Continue working on expanding perl6 test suite and integration with Pugs tests
<pmichaud> * Start adding namespaces, named arguments, and optional arguments to perl6 (and PAST-pm)
<pmichaud> * (Also slurpy arguments for punie.)
<pmichaud> * Possibly start converting to pdd15objects
<pmichaud> * Prepare for YAPC::NA and hackathon
<pmichaud>  
<pmichaud> .end for now.
<chromatic> tewk, anything to addd?
<tewk> nope
<chromatic> Question time.
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<particle> i'd like to say andy++ for the headerizer. it's helping cleanup our api
<pmichaud> I have 2, maybe 3 questions
<particle> getting a license for purify has come up before, and it has come up again today. let's persue.
<pmichaud> purify++
<particle> *pursue, even.
<chromatic> particle, can you look into that?
<particle> sure, i'll talk to allison about it.
<pmichaud> we were thinking maybe TPF could help
<chromatic> Excellent.
<chromatic> pmichaud?
<pmichaud> this is a longish question, bear with me
<pmichaud> Although I've read pdd15 a few times, I'm not entirely sure that I completely understand what's working, what's not working, or the canonical preferred code sequence for various things.
<pmichaud> (1) any guesses at an ETA for a workable/usable pdd15 (say, for perl6 and PGE)
<pmichaud> (2) Since quite a bit has changed from what Parrot was doing before to the new constellation, I'm often not sure if I'm looking at artifacts of the old way of doing things, the preferred way of doing things, or workarounds for various transition states (more)
<allison> the last feature really left before you can use it as a drop-in replacement for old classes is the ability to add methos straight from PIR
<pmichaud> (2 cont'd)   Is it
<pmichaud>   okay if I start posting lots of "What's the best way to do ... ?"
<pmichaud>   questions to parrot-porters?
<allison> (that was on 1)
<particle> pmichaud: yes, please!
<allison> yup, those questions are welcome
<allison> (and we can compile the answers into documentation)
<pmichaud> okay, prepare for a flod :-)
<pmichaud> *flood
<pmichaud> my only other question is a request for comments about my plans for working with pugs tests in perl6
<particle> pm: i've been prevented from working on pdd15 due to $work and more recently the segfault. i feel today that i have a satisfactory workaround until i have better tools to do more hunting. so now i can turn back to pdd15, if that's what's needed to help you along.
<pmichaud> I'll be elaborating more in messages to perl6-compiler later today, but if anyone has initial comments it might be nice to incorporate those before I post the message
<chromatic> Writing (or borrowing) a simple Test.pm is reasonably easy.
<pmichaud> particle: the longer we end up waiting on pdd15, the more workarounds are finding their ways into various compiler components
<pmichaud> for example, we already have a number of not-so-nice workarounds in perl6 to get the 01-sanity tests passing
<pmichaud> (translation:  I could really use a stable object platform asap)
<tewk> I'll help today work on pdd15
<particle> tewk++
<allison> so, here's a question for you: how important is it to you to be able to instantiate objects from type ID?
<pmichaud> you mean from a numeric ID?
<allison> we're going to rip the feature out soon anyway
<allison> yup, from numeric ID
<particle> (type id)--
<pmichaud> it's not at all important to me, as long as there's a way to instantiate objects
<pmichaud> the only reason why PGE and Perl6 and other pieces of code that I've written ever use typeid is because we didn't have ops that would let me do otherwise
<allison> okay, if we can skip making that nastyness work, you'll have pdd15 objects quite quickly
<pmichaud> for example, the only way to find out if a class exists was to use find_type
<pmichaud> in general, PGE and other tools have always tried to use strings to instantiate objects
<pmichaud> even better will be when I can just start calling 'new' on a class, since that's what all of the tools would really prefer to use
<allison> yup, that's the best way
<pmichaud> (i.e.,   $P0.'new'(args)
<allison> what's your current standard way of instantiating a class?
<pmichaud> subclass
<pmichaud> (do you mean creating a class, or instantiating an object of a class?)
<allison> creating class and then instantiating object from it
<pmichaud> creating a class is almost always 'subclass'
<pmichaud> I have very few root-level classes, almost all of them derive from a built-in PMC type
<tewk> subc;assing a pmc right
<pmichaud> intantiating objects from a class depends on the component.  Most of the time it's been either by a special method or sub to create the object (so I can get parameters), or by issuing   $P0 = new 'ClassName'
<pmichaud> it's extremely rare that I do a 'newclass' op
<allison> ok, we should be able to swap you out fairly quickly
<pmichaud> My questions will indicate places where I need some focused answers that would have immediate impact
<pmichaud> those will hit the list here shortly
<pmichaud> anyway, that answered my questions for now.  My next question is an invitation to anyone who wants to write or find a Test.pm that we can use with perl6 :-)
<pmichaud> I could do it, but I think that's something better delegated
<chromatic> Looking at the 02-* tests, I think it'll end up looking a lot like the existing one.
<chromatic> Those tests are awfully Pugs-Test.pm-specific.
<pmichaud> ...existing one?
<chromatic> Yes.
<allison> c: so we have to decide if the tests are the spec, or the spec is a subset of the current tests
<pmichaud> anyway, I know we'll want/need optional params and named params for testing (to support :$todo and :$description) so I'm planning to work on that in the next couple of days
<chromatic> t/02-test-pm/4-version_lt.t sucks, from a non-Pugs standpoint.
<chromatic> I mean t/02-test-pm/5-todo.t, sorry.
<pmichaud> we do have some ability to make changes in the pugs test suite, including refactors
<pmichaud> so, if we ended up with 01-pugs-test/ for pugs-specific tests, that would be fine with me
<pmichaud> or even 02-test-pm-pugs/
<pmichaud> that's all I have for now.
<chromatic> Are there any other questions?
<allison> Any remaining show-stoppers for 0.4.13?
<chromatic> None to my knowledge.
<particle> none i know of. i'm hoping to get platforms updates in ~10mins
<particle> s/get/have/
<particle> oh, just perl6 02-* tests are failing
<particle> need to get them out of the test harness
<chromatic> It sounds like we can wrap up here.
<pmichaud> no parrotsketch next week?
<particle> why not, conference time?
<allison> we won't all be at YAPC, so it's worth a quick meeting to update
<pmichaud> okay, works for me
<pmichaud> actually, doesn't work for me, I'm presenting at that exact moment :-)
<pmichaud> so you all can meet w/o me
<particle> allison: eta on end to code slush?
<allison> ok, we'll give a summary of your talk-in-progress as your report
<particle> heh
<pmichaud> heh
<pmichaud> well, since my talk begins at the same time as #parrotsketch, that might be easy :-)
<allison> particle: I'm 2 steps from the "make release tarball" step
<pmichaud> allison: let us know when it's okay to start checking in major items again :-)
<allison> will do
<pmichaud> I'll see if I can type up my #parrotsketch notes before my presentation, though.  Might not be likely, since it looks as though I'll be very busy in the days before #ps
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