--- Log opened Tue Jan 08 00:00:48 2008
00:14 < spinclad> ENOTWEETY
00:18 < spinclad> Robrt /msg'd
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07:01 < pmichaud> I may end up missing #parrotsketch today -- will send along a report if I get a chance
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08:23 -!- Irssi: #parrotsketch: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
08:24 < Tene> No Tweety, eh?  So this is unlogged?  >.>
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11:29 -!- Coke [~coke@cpe-72-228-52-192.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #parrotsketch
11:30 < chromatic> Good $?LOLCALTIME
11:30 < Coke> OH HAI WE CAN HAZ PARROTSKETCH?
11:31 < chromatic> KTHX
11:31 < allison> HAI COKE
11:31 < Coke> I see we've all been infected with lolcode.
11:31 < allison> viral
11:32 < Coke> let's be all crazy and go non-alpha. Tene?
11:32 -!- tcoppi [~thisnukes@208.72.153.109] has joined #parrotsketch
11:32 < Coke> (only because I know you submitted at least one patch this week. =-)
11:33 < Coke> too slow. jhorwitz?
11:33 < particle> Tweety--
11:33 < Coke> ah. good catch. someone able to log this for later playback?
11:33 < jhorwitz> started looking at embed.pod and comparing to my embedding notes from mod_parrot
11:33 < jhorwitz> put shiny new mod_parrot docs on the perlfoundation wiki
11:34 < Tene> Aw, too slow by one minute!  I was lecturing!
11:34 < Tene> I'm logging.
11:34 < jhorwitz> found some segfaults when Parrot_new() multiple times and submitted a test
11:34 < jhorwitz> EOR
11:34 < jhorwitz> s/when/when calling/
11:35 < Coke> jhorwitz: danke. Tene, danke: anything to report?
11:36 < Tene> Fixes for NQP Aggregate handling.  I think that was this week.
11:37 < Tene> Working on spec-compliant expression handling for lolcode.
11:37 < Tene> EOR
11:37 < Coke> danke.
11:37 < Coke> chromatic?
11:37 < chromatic> That's not even ASCIIbetical.
11:37 < chromatic> I worked on some PMC PDD changes on the branch, mostly .pmc parsing and emitting.
11:38 < chromatic> I profiled some code that helped pmichaud speed up PGE notably.
11:38 < chromatic> I applied some patches.
11:38 < chromatic> I hope to poke at the Lua segfault in the next couple of days, besides doing whatever Allison needs on the PMC branch.
11:38 < chromatic> that's it
11:39 < Coke> danke. my report:
11:39 < Coke> - Been working on a "web 2.0" read only front end for RT to help guide
11:39 < Coke> people looking for things to work on.
11:39 < Coke> - started languages/lolcode, which seems to have drawn some interest, patches, and some non-parrot blog entries.
11:39 < Coke> EOR
11:39 < Coke> particle? (if you're still about?)
11:39 < particle> ~ started journaling at use.perl to give folks more info on my commits for pct and perl6
11:39 < particle> ~ added -h and -v support for pct::hllcompiler and perl6
11:39 < particle> ~ working on -c and -e support
11:40 < particle> ~ made some problems with pbc_to_exe and windows, then fixed them
11:40 < particle> ~ small patches to lolcode
11:40 < particle> ~ committed a new tool (tools/dev/nopaste.pl) to paste files or stdin to nopaste.snit.ch -- plus applied enhancements by limbic_region++
11:40 < particle> .end
11:40 < Coke> Spif. Patrick?
11:40 < particle> no show, no report.
11:41 < Coke> barney?
11:41 < barney> Worked on Eclectus.
11:41 < barney> Started to use PAST in Scheme-XML as intermediate representation.
11:41 < barney> .eor
11:41 < Coke> Ok. pinged most of everyone else privately, no response, leaving allison!
11:41 < allison> - The first part of the week I spent implementing more of the concurrency scheduler, to smooth some of the joints between the new event system and the old threading model.
11:42 < allison> - I resolved most of the failures, and marked 3 tests as TODO for next month, when I'll be revamping threading/STM anyway.
11:42 < allison> - The second part of the week I've been working on PDD 17 implementation.
11:42 < allison> - Work going rapidly, thanks to some perl -pie magic.
11:42 < chromatic> mmm, pie
11:42 < allison> - Most of the work involved is code cleanups.
11:43 < allison> - My thanks to chromatic for the tasks he's been completing.
11:43 < allison> EOR
11:43 < Coke> Anyone else have anything to report? Questions to queue?
11:43 < Coke> I have been having fun; hopefully everyone else is too.
11:43  * allison HAZ QUESTION
11:43 < Coke> go ahead. =-)
11:44 < particle> i've got a q, too
11:44 < allison> I've gone back to doing primary development in a branch.
11:44 < allison> The main problem with working in a branch is losing language testing. Working in trunk I know the active language developers will let me know if I break anything. In a branch, I just don't know if I'm breaking things.
11:44 < particle> all you can do is languages-test
11:45 < allison> How far are we from making language tests a reliable judge of what should be passing?
11:45 < particle> that's up to the hll devs
11:45 < allison> can we todo everything we expect to fail?
11:45 < particle> hrmm
11:45 < Coke> I think there are two issues here.
11:45 < allison> drop languages that aren't actively maintained from the main languages-test target?
11:45 < Coke> 1) we can't test everything in languages-test
11:45 < particle> how about using a benchmark, rather than forcing hll devs to todo everything failing?
11:46 < Coke> 2) not every language in languages-test passes 100% (due to cruft, or maintenance, or ...)
11:46 < allison> I'd be okay with making a special target
11:46 < allison> languages-for-dev-test
11:46 < Coke> I think we can resolve 2 by todo'ing things that fail.
11:46 < particle> some languages may not support todo
11:46 < Coke> 1 requires someone to finish up the unified-testing todo.
11:47 < allison> I just need a way of knowing that I didn't break something in languages that will bite the language devs when I merge the branch back in
11:47 < Coke> allison: your best bet is communication; warn the list of impending re-merge, encourage language developers to double check their language in your branch.
11:47 < particle> allison: best way right now is probably to take output of languages-test at your branch point and save it to disk
11:47 < chromatic> ... and easier to debug than saying "Language devs, check out the branch before we merge and see if any of this pile of changes broke your stuff."
11:47 < particle> that is, make a baseline of languages-test output
11:47 < particle> then compare that baseline to current output of languages-test
11:47 < allison> coke: we tried that with objects, and it was still pretty traumatic
11:48 < Coke> tcl still hasn't recovered. =-)
11:48 < particle> questions can go to hll devs
11:48 < allison> coke: that's why I didn't use a branch for events
11:48 < allison> coke: but as the events implementation showed, there are rough patches to doing major development in trunk too
11:48 < Coke> I think as long as we're responsive when things do accidentally get broke, we'll be ok.
11:49 < particle> we don't have the smoke infrastructure we need.
11:49 < allison> I really hate having 2 weeks of work on my harddrive not committed anywhere, and trunk-based dev is difficult for collaboration
11:49 < particle> this is just more proof.
11:49 < Coke> (better smoke system)++
11:49 < allison> I'm all for that.
11:49 < Coke> We have some time before 0.5.2; when do you think you'll be ready with core (not hll) stuff from your branch?
11:50 < Coke> if we have a week or so before the cut, I think we'll be ok.
11:50 < allison> I plan to roll it in right after the release, just for general sanity
11:50 < Coke> after? ah. no worries then.
11:50 < allison> yup, no worries is the best way
11:51 < allison> I can send out a message to the list a week before merging
11:51 < Coke> In the meantime, ISTR that kid51 setup a page on the wiki describing the current/desired smoke situation. We should probably all take a pass at that and add our 2cents.
11:52 < allison> sounds good
11:52 < allison> KTXHBYE
11:52 < allison> I mean EOQ
11:52 < Coke> k. particle?
11:52 < particle> ok, so who's doing the release? has the person been notified? are we on track? bugday? etc.
11:53 < chromatic> Andy wants to announce the bugday, but no one has answered his questions yet.
11:53 < Coke> Bob Rogers is the guy. Sent him an email today to double check on his status.
11:53 < Coke> if anyone wants to volunteer to be on channel during the day saturday, I'm sure Bob won't mind.
11:53 < Coke> I can devote some time, but it's a crapshoot as to when.
11:54 < chromatic> I can be on in the AMish.
11:54 < allison> I'll be around, on a European timezone
11:55  * allison queues another question
11:55 < Coke> that sounds like a reasonable amount of coverage... anyone want to whip up a note to Andy (cc'ing bob?)
11:55 < barney> I might be around for som hours
11:56 < Coke> Ok. I'll get Andy the information he needs.
11:56 < Tene> I'll probably be around during a lot of Saturday.
11:56 < Coke> If Bob has issues cutting the release, I'll troll for another volunteer.
11:57 < Coke> but for now, I'm assuming on track. That cover you, particle?
11:57 < Coke> hoping so. allison?
11:58 < particle> 's all good.
11:58 < allison> what features are on the list to mark the 0.6.0 release?
11:58 < particle> there's a wiki page for that...
11:58 < allison> IIRC, particle had a wiki page
11:58 < allison> link?
11:59 < particle> http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?release_planning
12:00 < Coke> I think we might want to rejigger some of those; are there any that can be crossed off today?
12:00 < allison> Okay, so Feb is 0.6.0
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12:01 < allison> actually, Jan could be 0.6.0, but could use another review of exceptions PDD to make sure we covered everything
12:02 < particle> yes, i'd like you and patrick to talk about exceptions
12:02 < particle> i know he has questions
12:02 < Coke> works for me.
12:02 < Coke> (I think we have an old timer committer lined up for february)
12:02 < allison> particle: aye, I know there are a couple of features that didn't get implemented yet
12:03 < allison> okay, sounds like Feb is a good month for 0.6.0
12:03 < allison> that answers my question
12:04 < Coke> Note to anyone reading this: 0.9 is probably not going to be the last point release. =-)
12:04 < allison> coke: that's 0.99
12:04 < Coke> I've an email from the sponsors who are happy with the forward progress. Yay.
12:05 < Coke> Anyone got anything else?
12:05 < Coke> going once?
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12:06 < Coke> All right, I'm calling it. Thanks to everyone for their hard work. Any committers who read this but aren't here, feel free to join us next week.
12:07 < allison> thanks coke!
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